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What will Starmer do if Huntingdon...

1000 replies

Whyandwhenandwho · 02/11/2025 09:36

Stabbing turns out to be terror related or in a similar vein to incident to recent incidents that were related to immigration ? We don't know the identities yet of the perpetrators. But the fact the Home Secretary is brought in to comment in tabloids and the discussion on LK on BBC today makes me worried its a possibility. The poor people on the train - I cannot even imagine .. ..Starmer needs to tackle knife crime as its rife. What is the answer ? When is there a tipping point ? I don't know but something must be done - I've never paid as much attention other than feeling so terribly sorry for any victims and families. Now I'm starting to get angry when I see anything like this

OP posts:
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7
jasflowers · 02/11/2025 14:22

Meadowfinch · 02/11/2025 14:18

Given what seems to be the current mood of the public - and I was genuinely alarmed at the right wing opinions being expressed on here last night - it will only take another serious Islamic attack, and I'm honestly not sure this govt will survive. 🙁

The other horrific thing that happened in the last week was the arrest of two people for the "racially motivated rape" of a Sikh lady. I can never remember seeing that phrase in the news before. If true, that is utterly appalling.

I don't remember racial tension ever being so high before. Starmer & Mahmood need to stop being so lily-livered and do something decisive to defuse the situation now. We live in worrying times. 😟

Edited

What would you suggest he do?

Farage and right wing media are driving this racial tension, they see it as a weakness in Labour and seek to exploit it, the 'right has always done this.

MyNimbleBrickCritic · 02/11/2025 14:22

pointythings · 02/11/2025 14:15

They never have an answer to that question.

I've got an answer.

When everyone of that demographic is confident that they are treated no differently to anyone else. And no agencies believe it either.

So until there's no assumptions of racism or experiences of it.

WearyExLondoner · 02/11/2025 14:26

I lived in London in the 70s, 80s and 90s, throughout the IRA bombing campaigns and with much of my time spent in the West End which was often a focus of them.

Sometimes there were no casualties because the telephoned warnings gave sufficient notice, sometimes people were seriously injured or died.

However there was one major difference between IRA terrorism and modern-day Islamic terrorism, and that difference is crucial in public perception of risk.

The IRA (where not targeting political or military locations) mainly left bombs in public places, the targets were as much the buildings as the people in them. In fact, it could possibly be argued that the buildings were a larger target as successfully bombing them meant that images were shown on TV across the country, pushing the fear into people’s homes via the evening news. Casualties were, in some ways, a bonus collateral, as injuries would be reported but not shown. “Look what has happened to this hotel - you could have been in here and next time it might be you!” Social media didn’t exist and people didn’t carry a camera around with them all the time, now both are accessible from the phone in your pocket.

It wasn’t a benign campaign, it was real, violent and bloody. It was designed to terrorise the population in order to force the hand of politicians. It was scary to live through and yes, I had a number of near misses.

But there was a difference.

Busses and the tube carried posters - “If you see an unattended package or bag, don’t touch it…” etc.

Unattended.

Abandoned.

Alone.

No one in charge of it.

The IRA weren’t suicide bombers. The wanted to live to terrorise again another day. I remember a bomb exploding on a bus in central London, there were injuries, but the main focus of discussion amongst colleagues was that it was karma. The bomb had gone off unexpectedly, either poorly assembled or a dodgy timer, and had injured (killed?) the bomber. It had served him right.

But now…things are different.

Islamic terrorism makes martyrs of those who die in their quest to kill the infidel. Suicide bombing is a mark of pride. Stabbing and slitting throats puts the perpetrator at risk of being killed in the act. Death is seen as a route to eternal happiness, not a risk to be avoided.

It’s very difficult to prevent someone from launching an attack on strangers when they have a belief system which glorifies dying in the act. Succeed and get away with it and you live to repeat the atrocity another day, fail in your endeavour and get shot by police and you join the exalted ranks of martyrs for the cause.

We can’t fight that mindset and attempt to protect our population in the way the authorities did during the height of IRA terrorism.

We just have to hope, each of us, that someone intent on stabbing their way to religious martyrdom gets into the next carriage, next bus, next concert. Anywhere, but the place where we are.

giddyingup · 02/11/2025 14:28

childofthe607080s · 02/11/2025 11:22

Bully for you
although I have so ….

rich white men are abusing women daily in case you hadn’t read the news

no one should face abuse and no one should be protected from prosecution but to stereotype is wrong as is turning a blind eye to the prevalence of abuse all round

rich white men are abusing women daily in case you hadn’t read the news

Yep, the richest, whitest, English-est of men even - like I don’t someone who was formerly known as a Prince

pointythings · 02/11/2025 14:28

MyNimbleBrickCritic · 02/11/2025 14:22

I've got an answer.

When everyone of that demographic is confident that they are treated no differently to anyone else. And no agencies believe it either.

So until there's no assumptions of racism or experiences of it.

If your solution is to stop everyone from being racist, I'm on board with that.

But this thread should make it obvious that is never going to happen. As is the level of support for Reform in the UK.

childofthe607080s · 02/11/2025 14:28

You have to give people a reason to reject religious fervour - a better life than the one offered

IFartAlot · 02/11/2025 14:29

pointythings · 02/11/2025 14:15

They never have an answer to that question.

@pointythings and @MrsSkylerWhite

Is someone who migrated here from India on a work visa, got ILR and then British citizenship as British as someone whose ancestors go back to the British isles from before records began?

Meadowfinch · 02/11/2025 14:29

jasflowers · 02/11/2025 14:22

What would you suggest he do?

Farage and right wing media are driving this racial tension, they see it as a weakness in Labour and seek to exploit it, the 'right has always done this.

He could speed up the asylum claims process by throwing money at it. There are over 100,000 claims on-going.

And he could make it clear that any asylum seeker convicted of a violent, sexual, drugs-related or trafficking-related crime or any crime attracting greater than a 2 year custodial sentence will be deported immediately, with no right of appeal.

And anyone with those convictions will have their ILR revoked.

It would make all the rest of us, of every community and ethnicity safer.

Willyoujustbequiet · 02/11/2025 14:30

cottonwoolie · 02/11/2025 13:53

It’s just as possible the British nationals have been radicalised.

Do people think the police would lie? If they say it's not terror related then surely we should be able to accept that? People who don't want to believe that will believe what they want anyway.

To be fair Souhport wasn't deemed terrorist related but then he was later charged under terrorism legislation.

We simply dont know enough atm.

WeCouldBeNiceToEachOther · 02/11/2025 14:31

WearyExLondoner · 02/11/2025 14:26

I lived in London in the 70s, 80s and 90s, throughout the IRA bombing campaigns and with much of my time spent in the West End which was often a focus of them.

Sometimes there were no casualties because the telephoned warnings gave sufficient notice, sometimes people were seriously injured or died.

However there was one major difference between IRA terrorism and modern-day Islamic terrorism, and that difference is crucial in public perception of risk.

The IRA (where not targeting political or military locations) mainly left bombs in public places, the targets were as much the buildings as the people in them. In fact, it could possibly be argued that the buildings were a larger target as successfully bombing them meant that images were shown on TV across the country, pushing the fear into people’s homes via the evening news. Casualties were, in some ways, a bonus collateral, as injuries would be reported but not shown. “Look what has happened to this hotel - you could have been in here and next time it might be you!” Social media didn’t exist and people didn’t carry a camera around with them all the time, now both are accessible from the phone in your pocket.

It wasn’t a benign campaign, it was real, violent and bloody. It was designed to terrorise the population in order to force the hand of politicians. It was scary to live through and yes, I had a number of near misses.

But there was a difference.

Busses and the tube carried posters - “If you see an unattended package or bag, don’t touch it…” etc.

Unattended.

Abandoned.

Alone.

No one in charge of it.

The IRA weren’t suicide bombers. The wanted to live to terrorise again another day. I remember a bomb exploding on a bus in central London, there were injuries, but the main focus of discussion amongst colleagues was that it was karma. The bomb had gone off unexpectedly, either poorly assembled or a dodgy timer, and had injured (killed?) the bomber. It had served him right.

But now…things are different.

Islamic terrorism makes martyrs of those who die in their quest to kill the infidel. Suicide bombing is a mark of pride. Stabbing and slitting throats puts the perpetrator at risk of being killed in the act. Death is seen as a route to eternal happiness, not a risk to be avoided.

It’s very difficult to prevent someone from launching an attack on strangers when they have a belief system which glorifies dying in the act. Succeed and get away with it and you live to repeat the atrocity another day, fail in your endeavour and get shot by police and you join the exalted ranks of martyrs for the cause.

We can’t fight that mindset and attempt to protect our population in the way the authorities did during the height of IRA terrorism.

We just have to hope, each of us, that someone intent on stabbing their way to religious martyrdom gets into the next carriage, next bus, next concert. Anywhere, but the place where we are.

Tell that to the victims and their families.

cardibach · 02/11/2025 14:31

IFartAlot · 02/11/2025 14:29

@pointythings and @MrsSkylerWhite

Is someone who migrated here from India on a work visa, got ILR and then British citizenship as British as someone whose ancestors go back to the British isles from before records began?

Yes.
They don’t have the same cultural experience of being British, but they are just as British as I am.

BIossomtoes · 02/11/2025 14:31

EasternStandard · 02/11/2025 13:55

So two men with paranoia? A mass stabbing due to this.

Or two men off their heads on drugs, perhaps?

LaserPumpkin · 02/11/2025 14:31

Meadowfinch · 02/11/2025 14:29

He could speed up the asylum claims process by throwing money at it. There are over 100,000 claims on-going.

And he could make it clear that any asylum seeker convicted of a violent, sexual, drugs-related or trafficking-related crime or any crime attracting greater than a 2 year custodial sentence will be deported immediately, with no right of appeal.

And anyone with those convictions will have their ILR revoked.

It would make all the rest of us, of every community and ethnicity safer.

How would this have helped the Huntingdon stabbings? Both people arrested are British-born, not asylum seekers.

OonaStubbs · 02/11/2025 14:33

Meadowfinch · 02/11/2025 14:29

He could speed up the asylum claims process by throwing money at it. There are over 100,000 claims on-going.

And he could make it clear that any asylum seeker convicted of a violent, sexual, drugs-related or trafficking-related crime or any crime attracting greater than a 2 year custodial sentence will be deported immediately, with no right of appeal.

And anyone with those convictions will have their ILR revoked.

It would make all the rest of us, of every community and ethnicity safer.

Any asylum seeker convicted of any crime should be deported immediately.

We drastically need to reduce the amount of asylum seekers travelling here illegally. It just isn't working.

Unfortunately I have no confidence whatsoever that Starmer will do anything tangible to prevent these attacks happening again. He is perhaps the most weak and insipid PM of all time.

Meadowfinch · 02/11/2025 14:34

LaserPumpkin · 02/11/2025 14:31

How would this have helped the Huntingdon stabbings? Both people arrested are British-born, not asylum seekers.

I was asked what the govt could do to diffuse the current racial tension.

Rather than just sitting on their hands.

EasternStandard · 02/11/2025 14:35

Meadowfinch · 02/11/2025 14:29

He could speed up the asylum claims process by throwing money at it. There are over 100,000 claims on-going.

And he could make it clear that any asylum seeker convicted of a violent, sexual, drugs-related or trafficking-related crime or any crime attracting greater than a 2 year custodial sentence will be deported immediately, with no right of appeal.

And anyone with those convictions will have their ILR revoked.

It would make all the rest of us, of every community and ethnicity safer.

I’m not sure these things would help much. For someone to be deported they have to commit the crime first, eg the man to Ethiopia the other week. And speeding up claims is a selling point for traffickers.

jasflowers · 02/11/2025 14:35

pointythings · 02/11/2025 14:28

If your solution is to stop everyone from being racist, I'm on board with that.

But this thread should make it obvious that is never going to happen. As is the level of support for Reform in the UK.

Take heart, latest polling is less than 1/3rd of the electorate support Reform, 27%, the vast majority do not.

localnotail · 02/11/2025 14:37

OonaStubbs · 02/11/2025 14:33

Any asylum seeker convicted of any crime should be deported immediately.

We drastically need to reduce the amount of asylum seekers travelling here illegally. It just isn't working.

Unfortunately I have no confidence whatsoever that Starmer will do anything tangible to prevent these attacks happening again. He is perhaps the most weak and insipid PM of all time.

Explain what asylum seekers have to do with a crime committed by British-born (not naturalized) British citizens. You dont even know if their parents/ grandparents were asylum seekers; they could have come here because of jobs in the 70s or even been here for hundred of years?

pointythings · 02/11/2025 14:38

IFartAlot · 02/11/2025 14:29

@pointythings and @MrsSkylerWhite

Is someone who migrated here from India on a work visa, got ILR and then British citizenship as British as someone whose ancestors go back to the British isles from before records began?

One could argue they are more so, because they actively chose to be British, and put in a lot of work to get there...

How many generations do you think someone needs to be British to be considered 'British enough'? And are you or are you not disturbed by the way Britishness is now being equated with skin colour?

LaserPumpkin · 02/11/2025 14:38

jasflowers · 02/11/2025 14:35

Take heart, latest polling is less than 1/3rd of the electorate support Reform, 27%, the vast majority do not.

It depends on how the votes are spread, though. Labour won the last election with a large majority but only got 33.7% of the votes.

IFartAlot · 02/11/2025 14:38

cardibach · 02/11/2025 14:31

Yes.
They don’t have the same cultural experience of being British, but they are just as British as I am.

Then what makes someone British? If I moved to Japan and had kids there would that make them as Japanese as the emperor's family?

MyNimbleBrickCritic · 02/11/2025 14:39

pointythings · 02/11/2025 14:28

If your solution is to stop everyone from being racist, I'm on board with that.

But this thread should make it obvious that is never going to happen. As is the level of support for Reform in the UK.

Agreed.

I wouldn't vote for Reform in a million years

But having worked in the public sector for almost 30 years, the people shouting 'British born or becoming a citizen IS British' are spectaculary missing the point and if they want to adopt that attitude, then we should stop any and all public interest, policies and laws that acknowledge that really isn't the case in any practicable way or lived experience.

Concerns about the criminal justice system, poor mental health or poor physical health disproportionately affecting non-white individuals?

Well most are all British by definition so what's the problem?

Moonlightdust · 02/11/2025 14:39

3peepsand4paws · 02/11/2025 10:46

NOT terrorism related.
British born, Caribbean background.

Edited

That’s what they said about the Southport stabber. He was radicalised.

jasflowers · 02/11/2025 14:40

Meadowfinch · 02/11/2025 14:29

He could speed up the asylum claims process by throwing money at it. There are over 100,000 claims on-going.

And he could make it clear that any asylum seeker convicted of a violent, sexual, drugs-related or trafficking-related crime or any crime attracting greater than a 2 year custodial sentence will be deported immediately, with no right of appeal.

And anyone with those convictions will have their ILR revoked.

It would make all the rest of us, of every community and ethnicity safer.

Isn't that all in progress? its a 1 year jail sentence atm, not 2.

Look at the speed that guy was deported to Ethiopia - obv the messed up with his release but i do wonder if that was done deliberately to embarrass the Govt.

Once again, you can only deport someone if their country of origin will accept them back, in many cases, they refuse.

WeCouldBeNiceToEachOther · 02/11/2025 14:41

EasternStandard · 02/11/2025 14:35

I’m not sure these things would help much. For someone to be deported they have to commit the crime first, eg the man to Ethiopia the other week. And speeding up claims is a selling point for traffickers.

The entire issue is though people are coming here and disappearing before their claims can be processed because, shock horror, the tories didn’t fund the services properly. Speeding up their claims doesn’t mean accepting their claims.

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