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SerendipityJane · 22/11/2025 14:58

logicisall · 22/11/2025 14:42

Breaking news that Europe isn't having Trump's peace plan for Ukraine, so just putting this here.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/22/ukraine-russia-trump-war-latest-news/

Why, it's almost like Europe has a very different idea about Russia.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

logicisall · 22/11/2025 15:09

Re MTG, I think that Trump has threatened to put his efforts behind an "anyone but MTG" campaign next year, so she will be expecting to lose as he has Maga superpowers. By resigning now she is protecting her brand as an 'original coke' MAGA.
If the GOP is really fracturing, then there's the speculation that she might run as an Independent later.
I'm not entirely convinced of that one.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/11/2025 15:20

How well does running as an independent work in the USA, historically? If all it will do is divide the Republican vote in the area and let in a Democrat, can someone encourage her to do it?

SerendipityJane · 22/11/2025 15:43

logicisall · 22/11/2025 15:09

Re MTG, I think that Trump has threatened to put his efforts behind an "anyone but MTG" campaign next year, so she will be expecting to lose as he has Maga superpowers. By resigning now she is protecting her brand as an 'original coke' MAGA.
If the GOP is really fracturing, then there's the speculation that she might run as an Independent later.
I'm not entirely convinced of that one.

Worth noting (re: Belle) that we are talking about Georgia here.

This state has been avowedly never Trump from the off. Remember the spat between Trump and Brian Kemp (who despite Trumps blister is still there) ?

It appeals to my liberal educated irony that a state named after (or "for" for our US readers) the tyrant of Americas imagination should potentially be a flickering flame of resistance to tyranny in 2025.

DuncinToffee · 22/11/2025 18:08

Journalist: “Is this your final offer to Ukraine?”

TRUMP: “No. One way or the other we have to get it ended. He can continue to fight his little heart out.”

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/11/2025 18:13

Which "he" did Trump mean?

DuncinToffee · 22/11/2025 18:15

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/11/2025 18:13

Which "he" did Trump mean?

Zelenskyy

Eyesopenwideawake · 22/11/2025 18:23

I think it bears repeating that I believe (with no evidence whatsoever) there will be no mid terms, one way or another.

AcrossthePond55 · 22/11/2025 18:54

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/11/2025 15:20

How well does running as an independent work in the USA, historically? If all it will do is divide the Republican vote in the area and let in a Democrat, can someone encourage her to do it?

How well does running as an independent work in the USA, historically?

It doesn't do very well.

Currently there are only two who were elected as Independents: Bernie Sanders and Angus King in the Senate and both caucus with the Dems. No one elected as Independent currently in the House. Most of the time someone will be elected either as a Dem or GOP and then switch to Independent. There are none of that ilk in either the Senate or the House at the present time.

Having 3rd party candidates does divide votes and can definitely affect the outcome of an election. In fact, some experts posit that Jill Stein cost Hilary Clinton the election in 2016 by affecting the votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin (swing states). Had those voters voted for Hilary, she would have won the popular vote AND had enough votes in the electoral college. But that is an 'if'. The Stein voters may very well have stayed home.

FWIW my very inexpert opinion is that post-Trump, and especially if MAGA collapses, we will see more Independents winning elections. I don't think the Presidency, but Congressional seats and local and state offices. People are disaffected with both parties and are looking for alternatives.

PerkingFaintly · 22/11/2025 19:47

Thanks, @AcrossthePond55 .

Sorry, have I understood right that MTG has just cost her constituency thousands of dollars to run (what we'd call) a by-election for her replacement, when she could have just turned independent?

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 22/11/2025 20:07

Eyesopenwideawake · 22/11/2025 18:23

I think it bears repeating that I believe (with no evidence whatsoever) there will be no mid terms, one way or another.

Edited

I’m afraid I agree. Can’t see it happening. The Constitution doesn’t exist any more.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/11/2025 20:39

PerkingFaintly · 22/11/2025 19:47

Thanks, @AcrossthePond55 .

Sorry, have I understood right that MTG has just cost her constituency thousands of dollars to run (what we'd call) a by-election for her replacement, when she could have just turned independent?

Edited

That was what I took from that explanation too.

AcrossthePond55 · 22/11/2025 21:19

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime @PerkingFaintly

Yes, she could have. But I don't think that would have solved what she perceives as her problem. And that seems to be that she wouldn't have been reelected in 2026. So she's resigned eff January rather than simply announce that she wasn't going to run for election in 2026 and sticking it out until her term was up in January 2027, either as a Repug or by turning Independent (and still caucus with the GOP).

In a way I see her resigning as an act of cowardice, or maybe "I'm going to take my ball and go straight home!". If she really did want to fight for her constituents and 'American women' who think like her she should have been brave enough to 'chart her own path' in spite of SCROTUS and the GOP. Even if she didn't get much accomplished she could at least have made a lot of noise (which she is already very good at) for what she believes in. And voted against what she does not.

And BTW I found her comparing her situation to that of an 'abused wife' disgusting.

Howtoaccept · 22/11/2025 21:26

Yeah the abused wife thing was horrible. However I do think people who have crossed Trump do fear for their safety. Some of the MAGA crowd are violent (Jan 6?) and it’s now splitting. Maybe she thinks going quietly is better from that pov

Spandauer · 22/11/2025 22:51

Midterms.

Less than a year from the midterm elections, state and local voting officials from both major political parties are actively preparing for the possibility of interference by the Trump administration.
https://www.npr.org/2025/11/21/nx-s1-5599934/2026-trump-midterm-election-ballots-voting-national-guard

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 23/11/2025 00:15

Not only was the US peace plan not a peace plan, it was from Russia and not the US.

https://bsky.app/profile/adamjschwarz.bsky.social/post/3m6aybshuwk2t

So the US was aware that the world thought the document was US endorsed, yet waited until now to clarify that it wasn't?

How could the US have communicated to Ukraine that they had to accept the proposal or lose US support without clarifying that the Russian proposal wasn't actually their proposal?

Adam Schwarz (@adamjschwarz.bsky.social)

So the US was aware that the world thought the document was US endorsed, yet waited until now to clarify that it wasn't? How could the US have communicated to Ukraine that they had to accept the proposal or lose US support without clarifying that the...

https://bsky.app/profile/adamjschwarz.bsky.social/post/3m6aybshuwk2t

BeeWitchy · 23/11/2025 04:41

Eyesopenwideawake · 22/11/2025 18:23

I think it bears repeating that I believe (with no evidence whatsoever) there will be no mid terms, one way or another.

Edited

I think that might be underestimating the Americans. (More accurately, I hope it is underestimating them).

People are out on the street protesting. They are obstructing ICE wherever they can. The major state of California (population 40 million) and other states aren’t with Trump. MAGA looks like it might split from Trump. They have a history of protest in one way or another. Trump is falling lower in the polls. Prices increasing. But also armed forces members have been made aware, again, that following illegal orders will have repercussions. That’s just part of it,

BeeWitchy · 23/11/2025 09:15

I follow ‘silent middle child’ on Tik Tok.
He said that the Marjorie Taylor Greene resignation came just a few days after qualifying for her lifetime pension from Congress and making US$25 million from insider trading.

He did say that he thought she was disappointed that Trump wasn’t draining the swamp and she came to realise he is the swamp.

I’m not surprised at any of this.

Doesn't the ability to make millions from insider trading indicate she was also the swamp?

logicisall · 23/11/2025 10:01

DuncinToffee · 23/11/2025 00:15

Not only was the US peace plan not a peace plan, it was from Russia and not the US.

https://bsky.app/profile/adamjschwarz.bsky.social/post/3m6aybshuwk2t

So the US was aware that the world thought the document was US endorsed, yet waited until now to clarify that it wasn't?

How could the US have communicated to Ukraine that they had to accept the proposal or lose US support without clarifying that the Russian proposal wasn't actually their proposal?

Jesus wept!

logicisall · 23/11/2025 10:09

I see that the US is now refuting claim and now saying it was a US idea with input from both Russia and Ukraine!
Zelensky might disagree with that clarification.

DuncinToffee · 23/11/2025 10:40

What a mess, I read Krushner was involved with the meeting in Miami as well?

Mark Carney
On the plan, he says: "We like point number one, Ukraine as a sovereign nation, that is a good start."

DuncinToffee · 23/11/2025 11:01

I read it here

Reuters has confirmed that President Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner and his special envoy Steve Witkoff held a private meeting in Miami with a sanctioned Kremlin proxy to help shape the new "peace plan" for Ukraine. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/trump-officials-meeting-with-russian-miami-spurs-questions-about-latest-ukraine-2025-11-22/

logicisall · 23/11/2025 11:52

Remind me again, what is Jared Kushner's official WH title? Asking for a friend.

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