Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

You absolutely did say that disabled children's lives were worth less, those were your actual words, perhaps you need to read your comment again.
I know that whataboutery is the first refuge of the cowardly keyboard warrior, but this is a hilariously transparent and ineffective example, even by the weak standards of discourse on this thread! Suggesting I don't care about the lives of children in other countries, when you are the only person who has brought this up in a thread about an unrelated issue, shows how desperate you are to clutch at any straw that may lend a veneer of respectability to your abhorrent views.
What you are doing here is trying to suggest that we are the mean and unreasonable ones because we apparently don't care about poor children in other countries even though, once again, nobody else has mentioned this issue but you. How you could extrapolate this from us having compassion for disabled children in the UK is, frankly, baffling, though maybe you are stupid as well as evil.
However, I think the most likely explanation is that you are hoping that this, doubtless faux, concern you are evincing for deprived children overseas will deflect from the fact that you are advocating for the eradication of disabled children. If it turns out that you are actively involved in charities and organisations that help improve the lives of deprived children worldwide then I applaud you and withdraw the accusation that your concern is not genuine, though you're still a revolting eugenicist who would like to see disabled children wiped out. If, as I suspect, you are one of these people who also complains about the amount of money our government spends in overseas aid, then you're just a filthy hypocrite trying to score cheap shots at the expense of suffering kids. Well done.
In the last post I replied to, you were at least honest about your views on disabled children, at least have the decency to stand by your revolting beliefs and not engage in this flimsy deflection.
One last thing before I go, since engaging with such a rancid bigot is making me quite queasy.
Do you have any family members, friends or colleagues with disabled children? If so, have you shared your view that it was irresponsible of them to bring their disabled children into the world? I assume you haven't and, the reason you haven't is that, despite your protestations, you are aware that your views are unforgivable and that actually saying them out loud, in real life to people you care about, would cause those people great distress and will make you look like an absolutely terrible person. Perhaps, if you would be cautious about voicing these views publicly, you should consider what that says about both those opinions and about you.

I am aware of that, but just because you can do something doesn't me it should be so, and it doesn't mean it is sustainable. If benefits need to be reduced, i think THIS is the least worst place to start.

I know I said I'd leave this but, giving you more benefit of the doubt than you deserve and supposing there is even a remote chance this was a genuine question and not just a bit of unbelievably half-arsed deflection.
You do know it is possible to care simultaneously about children in the UK and elsewhere in the world don't you? Only someone completely lacking in human decency would think it necessary to play some kind of sick game of Top Trumps with the lives of deprived kids.
In case you still don't understand, it is very possible to care about children all over the world, in all kinds of situations and to wish to build a better world for them all. Improving lives for disabled children in the UK is not antithetical to improving lives of children in need overseas. Though I imagine that mindset is alien to you as someone whose solution to improving the lives of disabled children is to eradicate them.

Limiting the LCWRA/health element for under 22s won’t come in from April 2026. So far, that change has not been passed. It wasn’t part of new rules under the Universal Credit Act 2025 that was passed.

Many areas have a long waiting list, but your friend should request a referral to the special care community dental service.

For eye tests, if the building is accessible, your friend doesn’t have to transfer. Some opticians will do home visits. Or some people whose needs can’t be met in the community can be under ophthalmology at the hospital - DS1&3 are.

You can talk about how things should be, and I know how they are.

I dis read that for those that have profound disabilities the under 22 component will not apply but they haven't worked out the details yet
Obviously it would lead to a lot of families being much worse off.

I know how they are. Hence saying the special care dental services in many areas have long waiting lists. If she has been refused, there are mechanisms to challenge the decisions, including legally if necessary. No, your friend shouldn’t have to, but if she wanted to she could.

Do you really think I would barge into a thread about disability benefits without facts ?

Do you really ?

Do you really think every mechanism has not been pulled (at great expense of time from her husband for 57p an hour) ?

Do you really think she doesn't know that when the referral happens (and isn't cancelled, or postponed because they didn't realise she can't transfer) all that will happen is the teeth will be pulled as they don't do fillings (I mean why would you if decay has gone on for years) ?

She practically has her MP on speed dial.

There is what should be. And there is what is.

I try to help where I can, but I've not leaned to live on 57p an hour for 144 hours a week. Maybe I should have worked harder at Uni.

Do you realise how time consuming and exhausting it is as a disabled person to fit for basic rights?

@SerendipityJane where on earth did I say you didn’t have facts? Neither I didn’t comment on anyone working harder or learning to live on 57p ph.

I was pointing out there are routes to challenge the decisions, including via judicial review, if your friend wanted to. You might know that. Many don’t. MPs are often useless.

Special care dental services do sometimes do fillings. I know because DS1 has had a lot of dental work. It depends on the individual needs. For example, with him they will do fillings under GA, but they wouldn’t do a root canal under GA, for numerous reasons, so the tooth was extracted.

Yes, I have disabled DC and I am disabled myself. I do it day in, day out. And have supported thousands of other families over the years. Perhaps you missed the part where I said she shouldn’t have to.

I didn't miss that. You also said "if she wanted to". It's not a want it's a basic need

I didn’t say dental work etc. was anything other than a basic need. The want was is relation to if she wants to pursue it. Some people don’t want to/choose not to pursue it even when they can (can as in are able to, have the energy to, know how to, etc.).

PIP is intended to cover the additional costs related to having a qualifying health condition. So why not make it so actual additional costs are reimbursed rather than a regular income? For example, you need aids in the home to use the shower, toilet etc. Pay for these. You need help getting dressed: pay for a home help. Your condition means you can’t use public transport: pay for any taxis required. Your crippling anxiety means you can’t interact with others socially: pay for appropriate therapy. Individuals will get different amounts but they will all be justified and accounted for.

For many, PIP doesn’t cover the additional costs related to disability expenses. Reimbursing costs would cost more, both in terms of money paid out and also to administer. Many in wider society wouldn’t agree to increased costs. And some wouldn’t have the money upfront.

How much are you willing to pay per year for this system to be implemented?

In our case it would have been over £850 of costs, if we were generous and didn’t include the smaller bits.

Agreed - but I’d also like to bet (having been involved in making PIP applications on behalf of others for several years) that a good proportion of claimants couldn’t actually point to any or very few additional expenses related to their conditions, instead using it as an additional form of income.

Then you do the same for other benefits

Where would the money come from in the first place before someone can claim back the cost of things?

And I should say those were costs per month, it also doesn’t include being unable to work fulltime, not being able to cook so relying on more expensive pre-made food stuffs, all clothes needing to be altered etc.

Scope’s latest disability price tag research found disabled households need an extra £1,095 per month on average to have the same standard of living as non-disabled households. According to their research, not many receive more in disability benefits than they have in extra costs.

For many, a reduction in income is disability related.

£850 per year is less than the current rates of PIP which range from just over £100 up to over £700 per month depending on which rate is claimed

To answer your question, OP, in my situation, the NHS refused to officially test and diagnose until I turned 40 due to the expense.

I suffered for 16 years before this, with a degenerative, deforming, crippling disease.

It has backfired MASSIVELY and proven to backfire hugely on the NHS because my Occupational Health, physiotherapy, rheumatology, hydrotherapy appointments, my bi-annual MRI scans all add up…as do my weekly biologic injection at £600 a go.

What a criminal offence - short term pain for long very long term pain…for both the DWP government funding, my quality of life and that of my family.

Answered before I saw this - I stand by my point that many won’t have this level of costs if any at all

The monthly costs related to my disability far exceed the sum I receive in PIP. I am completely blind and have very restricted mobility so require adaptive technology, specialist equipment around the house and support with personal care, travel, managing my household and caring for my child. I also work and, despite my employer covering the costs of much of the equipment and support I require in the workplace, actually getting from and staying in work incurs extra costs which I have to cover. Without PIP I would likely not be able to afford to work. As I said, since my monthly disability related costs exceed the amount of PIP I receive, I am worse off than a non-disabled person earning the same wage. I always have to mention this because I know how bitter some of the delightful posters on here become if they think a disabled person is having it to easy!
This is a genuine experience of someone who absolutely needs the monthly PIP payment to cover extra specialist expenses, I feel my first-hand account is more useful than your nebulous suspicions that a lot of PIP claimants don't really have extra expenses.