Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

But it isn't an informed choice because aa I stated in .previous post Down syndrome is initself a spectrum.

Okay fair point. I'll digest what you said and take it all in context. Off to a movie now with DH and DS.

You think women who don't choose to terminate an unborn disabled child get what they "asked for" . Bloody hell!

No you're not. You're meant to accurately describe your needs. That may be a single description which is your 'typical day', or it may be a more narrative description of "'on a good day x', on a 'normal day y', 'on a bad day z'. In an average week, I have 3 normal days, 3 bad days and 1 good day."

A descriptor is only satisfied if it can be done safely, as often as necessary, to an acceptable standard, and in a reasonable timeframe.

Have a good night, enjoy the film.

But that isn't just describing the worst day. Just describing your worst day isn't an accurate description. An average day gives a better description of most days.

I just feel so sad that this level of hatred is being levied at people with already hard lives. I would love for DD1 to be able to leave the house independently, to be left at home independently, to be able to go to a college (3 failed placements), to be able to cope with more than 20 minutes in an Alternative Provision session. I would love for her to not need a SMI certificate. To not need LCWRA. To not need PIP or UC.

The sad thing is that she would still fall into the group that @Perzival is saying don't deserve it all. She can walk (lots of pain and uses a wheelchair, which she can't propel herself). She can eat. She can talk (language disorder). She can write a little bit.

She could in no way work. Her psychologist has said it's very unlikely she will ever be able to. She is unpredictable and her demeanour can change in an instant. Limited sense of danger.

She still scored 0 on the LCWRA assessment because every descriptor is so extreme. But she still got awarded LCWRA because the assessor could see that there was no way it was appropriate for her to work.

I could go on. Being the parent of these young people who you know society judges isn't nice.

I don’t think you understand the purpose of PIP. My additional, unavoidable costs related to my disability won’t change whether I earn £1000 a month or £100,000.

PIP (and ADP) is nothing whatsoever to do with work, it’s to compensate people for the extra cost of living with a disability - in my case, those costs are much more than the amount I get on ADP.

Yes, that money helps keep me in work, but my disability will only deteriorate as I get older, so the costs will never decrease.

@Lougle the hatred as you put it that i have is for those who exagerate their needs, make up needs etc. If you or your daughter do that then yes i think pip should be taken from her. It wouldn't be fair to those with genuine needs. If you haven't then there is no issue?

The system is being looked at. Things do and will change. No amount of trying to pull on heart strings will change that.

I would like to see it all tightened up.

No, it doesn't. An average day doesn't give enough information. By definition, if you're describing your average day you are describing a day better than your worst day and worse than your better days. Because of the way the test works, if you have a fluctuating condition, then the assessor needs to decide which descriptor fits for at least 50% of the time.

Take DD2. She can interact independently with her tutor who she gets on really well with, when everything is ok. Same with her English teacher. But if things aren't going well, she can't talk. She can't talk to people she doesn't know without support, and she can't talk to some of her teachers. That's on a good day. On a bad day, she can't talk at all, and needs to use WhatsApp to tell me it's all bad and I need to contact the school to tell them what's happening. It doesn't matter that she can talk some of the time. If for 50% of the time or more she can't, or needs support, that's what counts.

Nobody is 'pulling on heart strings'. I would use the classic MN phrase 'Did you mean to be so rude?', but it's very obvious that you did.

I don't know if you are genuinely odious and think like this or just poking at people for a reaction.

No but if you earn well you don't need government assistance, PIP shouldn't ever be a consolation prize for getting dealt a shitty hand in life. If you can afford to buy the equipment yourself by working then that is what should be done.

If workplaces can be made more accommodating for more disabled people through practical adaptations, wfh and flexible working, then more disabled people can have successful careers and get off benefits all together.

Your child is not indicative of every person claiming disability or benefits. It's not hatred, it being pragmatic about what is raised and how it is spent. It's sad that so many people with disabled dependents do not recognise that they might have better resources if those that don't actually need it were not draining the system.

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/missing-out-%C2%A319-billion-benefits-support-goes-unclaimed-each-year?srsltid=AfmBOoouXpftiDz0AhVoHkIbbWAxNKYM77z9WwfFnPEHi97D1f7NcTSQ

Why would I “calm the fuck down” when people like you refuse to listen to anything we say and prefer to be told how to think by the right wing media?

Yes I’m definitely sick of you and your ilk. I paid in for long enough and didn’t begrudge a penny of my taxes to support the vulnerable. I’d have happily carried on paying in too; believe it or not I didn’t decide to become disabled just so I could sponge off you 🙄.

Only if that means you have to also pay for your own prenatal and postnatal care. After all, having children is a choice. Why should the state be responsible for providing maternity care in that case?

People with disabled dependents largely know that they wouldn't have better resources if anything was to change because any potential savings wouldn't go back into the pot for disabled children, it would just go somewhere else.

Some of the suggestions would also make my disabled child's life harder such as removing mobility from DLA. That would certainly mean having worse resources too.

I'm confused. People want us to go back to work but they want to remove the resources that help people go to and stay in work?

The proposed changes to PIP, that I read about, did not seem to include the mobility element anyway. They appeared to want to bring in the 4 point score, or something. Who knows what is going on with it all, though! They would be unwise to tamper with the mobility element, I think. They should concentrate their attention on the ridiculous assessing of people who are not going to improve, and the many appeals that are costing a fortune, instead, if they are so interested in saving money.

As someone who gets PIP, it’s been a lifesaver. 10% is probably right, given the 3% with long COVID. I wear a lanyard when I’m out alone as none of my disabilities are visible, so people don’t expect me to be 100% sharp. 1:10 I would say is spot on.

Yep, because apparently if you take away their resources, they'll 'find a way'.

No mate, they'll just struggle in poverty and die young.

It's the same old same old: rich people must be given money as an incentive, poor people must have it taken away.

If I were a worse person, I'd wish a disabling accident or illness on every single person who thinks like that. But I'm not, so I won't.

Once you reach 64, the assessments stop as they assume you aren’t going to improve, but it’s nuts with young amputees and obvious permanent disabilities, I totally agree. And the number of appeals is madness. I work, but I’m not sure how much longer I’ll be able to continue.

I read the white paper has been scrapped

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/dwps-plans-in-tatters-as-mcfadden-scraps-white-paper-on-further-disability-cuts/