Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

Because I understand the severe hardship and pain of being disabled. I have sympathy for them.

I honestly think the high level of disability is a consequence of our utterly shit healthcare in this country. I do agree that with some mental health issues, they're likely to just be made worse by extended time out of work, but it's very difficult to have a system that properly addresses this without being punitive. I know from experience that even a course of group CBT can take months on end to access, so it seems likely that people who could otherwise lead productive lives are stuck in a holding pattern. Ditto many chronic conditions. However, the whole thing is unsustainable financially, so it's all pretty academic really.

As I've learnt PIP fraud is 1%
And there's rigorous assessment procedures to get it. It's very cruel to tell disabled people to "lump it and just get over it"

Which is nice but that won't help if the system collapses. The country is broke and nearly everyone is feeling the pinch. Having these sort of conversations and getting people thinking about what may happen could help them prepare. If we camaccept that there is only a finite resourse we can look at how it's best spent.

Does looking at how it's best spent include the way people are assessed? Whilst we're never going to have a system where 100% of people get the correct decision the first time around, something needs to be done about the 70% going to tribunal and winning

When I got turned down for pip I asked for help from my housing association. The lady took a quick look at my letter (bearing in mind she'd never met me before) and said she couldn't understand why I'd be turned down

I'm due to be assessed again soon and I'm dreading it. No doubt I'll have to get it looked at again before I get the right decision even though nothings really changed

PIP isn't that large a proportion of the budget? And they are disabled, that's not going to change. They need the PIP to actually have a life.

Disability benefit reduction is an easy target and while they may need it to have a life, others who don't have a disability don't have a life either. They are looking at pip again, there will be changes.

Where do you think the extra savings will go ?

No idea, maybe ask RR?

Some people need PIP to meet the costs of their disabilities. It levels the playing field. Some people are too disabled to work.

Surely you must have an opinion though or an idea of a solution for this broken Britain you are talking about, you seem to think money should be saved from benefits claimants but don't have any further thoughts

"In residential i believe they already lose the care component depending on who funds what but they'd lose the mobility"

I think the majority of people on CHC keep both components. All of the younger adults I know who get CHC including my own son, live in supported living type homes/houses.

Disabled children should be aborted or euthanised??????

@ChimneyCake i know you've come to this a few pages i've been pretty clear about my thoughts. Britain is broke, give it a quick google.

@Avantiagain i wasn't sure. I think i did put that, bloody hell after this thread i really hope i did.

Since you asked, I haven’t had cancer or chemo, no. I have had other health problems that ended my career, have taken me out of the workforce for periods of time and caused significant difficulty for me and while I am fortunately back in FT work I earn less than I did 20 years ago and I don’t enjoy the work I do now as much as what I did before. So I do have some insight. And I’m not saying ‘if can do it, anyone can’ btw - just saying that I do have some idea what it’s like to be struggling. And this is partly why these conversations are so difficult to have, because people make assumptions and are rude. If I’d said ‘all disabled people are losers who just need to take responsibility for themselves’ fair enough, but I was making a much broader point and it wasn’t aimed at anyone personally.

And those of us who were born seemingly healthy? Whilst my disability now's shows up in scans during pregnancy, it wasn't the case when I was born

Those tests also don't indicate the level of disability. Many people with my disability do live normal lives and then there are some who have severe learning disabilities who need care for the rest of their life

Yes it is. But I can't blame the disabled for it. If we went after tax evasion and avoidance we'd probably gain more revenue. Or we could encourage those who are healthy to not slack. Those who are disabled need support. I've been a benefits basher in the past but changed my mind after reading about people's experiences here

@ChimneyCake i'm the reverse. I used to be what would be classed as very woke/ left wing but i have a severly disabled son and that opened my eyes to a lot of the abuse and scamming that goes on. It infuruates me, some people play disability like a game. It's those with genuine needs that end up paying the price.

But you are now proposing not providing any support even for very seriously disabled people...

That isn't what i've said.

Exactly my son has a rare chromosome disorder, but how it impacts is a person can vary massively from person to person some people with the same or similar disorders will have few if any issues ,but my son is severely impacted and will never live independently
Even if it had been detected prior to birth ,which it hadent as its not normally something that tested for we would have no idea how it would have affected him that only became Apparent as started to develop.

This is the problem with these thread, extreme examples of need or blatant mistruths.

ChimneyCake No i'm asking should the taxpayer/government be liable for an informed choice a person makes if it had stated that that child would not be eligible for any extra support?

Apart from the ethics around this
Down syndrome is itself a spectrum whilst there will always be a learning disability, it could range from quite mild to profound there are people with Down syndrome that are educated in mainstream schools, and can live fairly independently with some support
And there are also children with Down syndrome who attend my sons special schools for children with severe and profound learning disabilities, some will also have quite significant health issues ,but there's no way of knowing how the individual will be impacted until they start to develop.