Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

You obviously do not understand what VUW actually covers. When you said “I'd change the criteria for hrm dla to remove virtual inability to walk.” and I pointed out this would include those with CP who are VUW you said “Why should they be entitled, If an aid is appropriate? They can claim under smi if they meet the criteria. Why do you feel every disability should be financially compensated for regardless of if society can fund it or not?” So, yes, you did include CP as an issue.

I have challenged you because it is ignorant to think only SMI is deserving of HRM. I notice you ignored my question about the other HRM criteria. Nothing about ‘hitting a nerve’.

Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

Nope

Round of applause for your ability to predict your disabled son would arrive.

Maybe we should have planned for the eventual cost of replacing everything we own. You live and learn!

I’ll cut my benefits for my severely disabled child when you cut yours. You first.

Care for a severely disabled individual costs hundreds of thousands pa. It isn’t just a matter of planning. The vast majority of people cannot ever afford that. In order to be able to ensure you could always fund a disabled child’s care throughout their life one would have to be a multi-millionaire.

Interesting how being able to pay for independent reports is privilege but being able to afford far more expensive care is planning not privilege.

We didn't have a child until we were in a good place and could pay for him either.

Then he almost died, became severely physically disabled and I lost my job as a result of it.

There's no planning some things.

In regards to state subsadising food yes. Why should society pay for that? At what stage did parents stop taking responsibility for their childs needs?

Top trumps?! That makes it sound like you resent the idea that some disabilities are more disabling than others? Some people are more disabled than others and not every need equates to disability. The state shouldn't have to financially support every single person with a need.

In regards to state subsadising food yes. Why should society pay for that?

Do you object to healthy start vouchers? What about FSM (universal and low income versions)? Food for hospital inpatients? Children who have been detained? Those on prescription food and/or feeds?

Food needs as a result of profound autism? It's exactly what DLA should be used for.

Of course some disabilities are more severe than others. No one is going to argue with that.

By your post you've said that you raised cp as an issue and i responded directly?

In all honesty it wouldn't bother me if smi was removed also and hrm was removed from dla all together.

So you don’t think any children should have HRM? So no children eligible for a motability vehicle? No children automatically eligible for a blue badge?

I mentioned CP specifically because you mentioned VUW which includes some with CP who are VUW. If you didn’t think CP was ‘an issue’ then you wouldn’t have raised VUW as a whole category being removed.

The thread is about disability related benefits.

There are many 'benefits' i would cut and area's i would want to see charged for. Also, yes i don't believe people shouldn't have children if they can't afford them and while i appreciate circumstances can change i don't think the state should pick up the tab for it all. We should have a welfare state for a safety net but it shouldn't be a lifestyle choice for those who don't want to work.

There are more disabilities than cp that people claim vuw for. Cp never entered my head. I'd still cut vuw and smi even for hrm dla. Hrm full stop.

I know what the thread is about. I was asking about wider issues to understand the bizarre viewpoint. I am not the only one to raise wider issues - you yourself did earlier in the thread by mentioning right to buy, social housing under occupancy, single parent qualifications, pensions…

I am perfectly aware of what VUW covers. I didn’t only mention CP. The fact CP never entered your head is exactly my point! You do not understand the scope of what VUW covers or how other disabilities present. You are only focused on a very narrow view.

You can apply for a bluebadge without hrm at the LA's discretion. Yes, i think the whole benefit system needs a renewal. Criteria should be narrowed and only the most severe should qualify. Anything that can be "got on with" with maybe some additional support shouldn't even enter the equation.

Why would you cut HRM from DLA?

I know you can apply and be assessed for a blue badge without HRM. Perhaps you missed the ‘automatically’ in my post. Or maybe you just ignored it.

Yes, you e made it clear, narrowed so your child still qualifies but others still with significant complex needs don’t.

You have been pretty focussed on cp. You mentioned it repeatedly in your pp. There are many other conditions you could have highlighted.

I have mentioned other conditions. ASD, LD, schizophrenia, limb loss.

As i have repeatedly written, it doesn't matter what rates my ds gets in a few month the LA will take most of it anyway. Yes i'm aware of chc, it makes little material difference given circs.

Ok yes you did mention those but you did also repeatedly come back to cp.

Going to sleep now, may come back to argue/ debate some more in the morning.

I also mentioned those who are terminally ill, have cancer, are pregnant.

And I mentioned other criteria for HRM which would include people who are Deaf and VI.

I came back to CP because I responded to your posts.

Even if your DS isn’t eligible for CHC funding, the mobility element isn’t taken into account during social care financial assessments.

I only mentioned cp in response to you?

You didn't directly mention all of those and some i think are by proxy such as the healthy start vouchers. You always came back to cp.

No motability isn't taken into account but it then has to fund transport (Makes sense). If motability isn't awarded transport can be seen as a neccesary cost and taken as an exclusion (in our LA- i'm aware other LA's may have slightly different amounts for calcs etc).

Ds will be left with very little from his benefits and will require top up from us.

I'm lost as to what point you were trying to make now? I'm not sure any point would change my view on the disability benefit system needing changing. The country can't continue to pay for it. Likewise the send system, other benefits, small boat people, pensioners etc something has to give.

I mentioned CP in response to you mentioning VUW. You then replied to me, so I responded. If you take exception to CP as an example, feel free to replace it with a number of other conditions such as TBI, SMA, Rett Syndrome…

You didn't directly mention all of those

Yes I did. At 22:55 I said “not be expected to live 12 months. be receiving, shortly receiving or recovering from cancer treatment. be pregnant with a serious risk to your or baby’s health unless you refrain from work and work-related activity.” When discussing LCWRA.

I mentioned other HRM criteria too (which, for example, would include those who are Deaf and VI, and anyone who understood benefits would know that). More than once.

Healthy start vouchers are completely separate to anything disability related. Not by proxy. I mentioned them in response to you saying the state shouldn’t subsidise food.

My points were responding to your posts. If you aren’t sure what my posts say, you could always read them again. Or not and continue ignore them.

Motability and Mobility aren’t the same thing. Motability is the motability scheme some with HRM DLA, enhanced mobility PIP or a number of other benefits use. Mobility is one component of DLA/PIP, which may or may not be used for the motability scheme.