Older women on TikTok telling younger women not to get married...

[Monsteronthehill]

I'm finding this trend fascinating - mostly because it's not just women who have had divorces or are in unhappy marriages giving this advice - it also includes women who admit they are happily married but still saying don't do it.

So I was wondering. If you are happily married, would you tell a 20 year old woman that she should get married, too? I’m not trying to bash marriage, just interested in how attitudes are shifting. It seems like a big change from how older generations used to talk about it as being the best/only viable option. I do think women don't generally benefit from marriage as much as men do. There's of course the consideration that if you have kids and/or assets then being married is better financially for the woman should you split up, but I don't think this is what it's getting at here, just that marriage in general is a raw deal for women.

I think that pooling resources, having a family and having a good quality relationship with a partner are routes to significant satisfaction if they work well.

But that is a big if and the structures around women are extremely punitive if the relationship doesn’t work out. I know loads of people in great loving relationships who really benefit from them so I’d be advising my daughters to be extremely discerning with their partners.

Life is for enjoying first, travelling, sleeping around, shaking your arse on a yacht etc

Once youre tired and approaching menopause, THEN you should seek a husband xx

We don't need men financially anymore and it could be argued that being married puts you at a distinct financial disadvantage - whether that be by marrying a rich man who then uses finances to control the home or having children with a man who skips out and leaves you with the financial load etc. Men can be nice but we truly don't need them to live anymore and I think more and more women are waking up to that. Of course they're necessary for pro-creation but that's about it. When you weigh up the potential stress they bring you as life goes on I can understand older women saying not to bother.

I say this as a happily married woman. I met my 2nd husband when I was 43 and he was 37 and he's great and I wouldn't swap him but I spend a lot of time away from him as I love my independence and he's ok with it, it works. Was I with a clingy or controlling man at this age now - I'm 54 - it would be a complete no go.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/get-married-charlie-kirks-most-important-advice-to-young-men-and-women

Just two days before he was killed, Kirk spoke about falling marriage and fertility rates on Laura Ingraham’s show on Fox News. Young women, he said, are prioritizing “careerism and consumerism” at the expense of more meaningful pursuits. “Having children is more important than having a good career … my kids matter more than how many social media followers I have,” Kirk said.
He was right: Data consistently show that marriage and children confer compounding benefits to both men and women. Married men and women ages 25 to 55 are almost twice as likely to report they are “very happy” with their life than their unmarried peers, according to the 2022 General Social Survey. Married people enjoy more financial stability and better emotional and physical health outcomes.
Kirk was speaking primarily of young women on Ingraham’s show, highlighting a new survey in which progressive women ranked their career, making money and home ownership as higher goals than marriage and having children.
“This is not about shaming, this is not about ridiculing, this is not about moralizing,” Kirk told Ingraham. “It’s about lifting up what is beautiful.”
Earlier this year, the Institute for Family Studies and the Wheatley Institute sponsored a YouGov survey of 3,000 American women aged 25-55. We found married mothers are among the happiest in the country. They report less loneliness, more physical touch and deeper meaning and connection in their relationships than their unmarried and childless peers.

I'm 65 and have been married for 43 years to the same man.
I think it depends entirely on what sort of man he is. I would definitely encourage my son's gf to marry him because he is a great partner and father (better than DH who is a bit of a traditionalist and to be fair worked very long hours). They fairly share parenting, housework, admin etc and he hasn't turned into one of these selfish ladbabies that we constantly read about on here.
I would say live together first, agree on what parenting looks like before you embark on it, keep your job (preferably earn more than he does) and don't put up with any shit.
I watched a clip yesterday where a social scientist says that data shows that the two happiest groups of people in the world are married men and single women.

Marriage is protection. Telling women not to get married is dangerous.

I wouldn’t tell another woman whether to do anything. Very happy with my own husband and would marry him again and again, but I can see how marriage is a short straw for many women. I can’t tell them how it’ll work out for them, I do think there are some good eggs out there, but I am pleased there’s less pressure these days to marry just because it’s the “done thing”.

I'm genuinely happily married and have been with my husband for over 20 years. I wouldn't go as far as to say don't get married, but I’d emphasise that it shouldn't be an ‘aspiration’. I was one of the ‘can't wait to get engaged’ brigade, as were many of my friends. Engagements we're celebrated with giddy excitement and an ‘I’ve done it!’ feeling of achievement. I look back and think we were all bonkers!

Marriage isn't an achievement and it's not a fairytale. I've also realised that a happy marriage is a good chunk of luck. You can be in love and be compatible with anything in the beginning but none of you know the future, how you'll grow and change, whether you’ll grow and change at the same pace, in a similar enough way. You don't know what kind of parent you'll be or how you’ll react to kids, how you'll react to huge life events like illness, death, or job loss. You have to stay in sync enough over decades and decades and choose each other again and again, through his time and bad and all the boring ‘nothing’ times. It's mad really - committing to forever. But it can work, but for many, it doesn't. So enter at your own risk and with caution is my advice!

My mum used to say "Never get married!" She was happily married to my dad but found him exasperating from time to time. What she meant was that I shouldn't settle down before I was ready and made it clear that there were a lot of things that were harder to do once you were married, and particularly when you had children. Sound advice, I think.

I got married at 28, we had a lovely wedding and am still happily married (at 50) but I was never one of those little girls who dreamed of my wedding day and had it all planned out and thought it was the be all and end all. If indeed, they exist.

Yes I do know what you mean. Whilst engagement and marriage wasn’t such the hoo-har for me as I see it is for other people, I was pretty young when it happened and I remember feeling relief of “phew” as if there was some subconscious fear of not reaching that ‘milestone’. It’s mostly luck that he was a good man and we have had a good marriage, but I suspect those unconscious fears and desires drive some poor and irrational decisions, I won’t pretend that it was a calculated achievement!

They should be advising how to choose a decent man who will make a good partner and father. Someone who will pull their weight, contribute properly, be committed and respect boundaries. Also, how to recognise the shitty ones and not tolerate slack behaviour. Learning about coercion and manipulation would have benefitted me greatly as a young woman.

I do think that if you build assets and have children, marriage/civil partnership gives you valuable legal protection in case of separation.

I agree. I’m a very happily married woman with a lovely husband. I consider myself fortunate not to be stuck with a partner that just takes up space in my home and uses up all my resources.

Sadly, you have to kiss lots of frogs before finding your prince and then he may turn out to be a selfish, useless twat that you will have to
deal with for years if you have DC. You are far better off living your best single life - having a beautiful home that is all yours and spending your money how you wish. My all means have boyfriends and have as much safe sex as you can manage - but enjoy the silence and calm that living on your own can offer.

I’ve been very happily married for nearly 30 years and have a teenaged daughter.

I’ve told her that the biggest impact on how happy her life will be is not her education or what job she gets it will be who she chooses to marry/have children with.

You need to take your time and be really, REALLY sure.

I’ve raised her to have rock solid boundaries so hopefully that will stand her in good stead.

Erm… no.

Erm… no. That’s the best time not to have one.

I would say to any young woman, if she wants children, to marry first.

There isn't just the financials to consider, it has been shown time and again that children whose parents are in a loving secure marriage just do better, in every aspect.

It is the bare minumum step of commitment that should be expected before bearing any man's child. It doesn't always work out, but it gives your dc the very best chance from the start.

I think women should absolutely get married if they want to have children. All the evidence suggests that it is better for the kids. If children aren’t a factor I think it’s a lifestyle choice but a very good one if you want security and consistency in your life. Marriage is a life-long contract. It’s a commitment and an adventure that some people want because often ‘limiting’ yourself can encourage discipline, personal growth and satisfaction. Ironically, ultimate freedom often doesn’t make us happier. The caveat to the above is to choose extremely carefully.

When it’s working, being married is the most secure, happy way to grow alongside someone else, and a good marriage is the very best kind of relationship. Not all marriages are good or stay good. I recommend it, but people should go into marriage with their eyes open.

It’s all about the legal side and division of assets.

Most of my friends are out earned by their husbands only 2 out earn their husbands.

Really it’s all about asset sharing on breaking up.

This is completely untrue. The happiest group is and has been for a long time, unmarried women with no children: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-happier-without-children-or-a-spouse-happiness-expert

I'd tell a 20 year-old woman not to get married, certainly not for a good few years. But I would suggest that if she is going to have children and give up work or go part-time due to childcare needs, she is far better protected financially if she is married to her dc's father.

When you're approaching menopause is when you can least stand to be around a man.Though, of course, you're likely to make a better choice at that point because you no longer put up with the shit that you tolerated when you were younger.

The thing is I think a good marriage adds a huge amount to one’s life. To have a life partner to split the load; financially, emotionally. To have someone by your side to share and enjoy everything with. It’s the preference for most people I assume (not all!), but the harsh reality is I don’t think good marriages are in the majority, I think a lot of people are in bad or mediocre marriages for convenience, and I suspect they drain the life out of you and only make life much worse.

I understand why some people (mostly women), especially now it’s easier to be financially independent, won’t want to take that gamble.

If marriage is a bad thing for women in that sense, being in a long term partnership with a man is certainly no better.

If you’re going to live long term with a man and have children together 9 times out of 10 it’s a better idea to be married otherwise you risk making yourself financially vulnerable.