If you are middle class do you feel your lifestyle is eroding?

[ceramicwitch]

Now I know that as long as we can afford to heat your home, pay your mortgage / rent and afford to feed yourself and your family you can't complain too much. However I am interested if you feel you used to have a a middle class lifestyle, able to afford nicer bits or activities if you feel that is being eroded?

I think I am feeling it, we used to be quite free with putting nice things in the basket at waitrose (not where we go all the time but where we get treats and more premium things) and not we are holding back quite a bit more. We usually go to the Theatre a few times a year and the ballet, especially at Christmas but this year we are giving it a miss due to ever increasing costs. We've stopped going to cafes if not on holiday.

I have good friends who live in quite an expensive part of town, He is a Doctor and they seemed to be quite oblivious to cost of living the past few years but the other day I was talking to him and he was saying how he doesn't much enjoy eating out these days as the cost of it sticks in his throat, even cheap and cheerful is quite pricy now.

Anyone else feeling that quality of life even for the supposedly well insulated middle classes is in decline?

It’s only when you can’t afford to pay your rent/mortgage, council tax and utility bills that you need to worry.

Disagree

Sadly, I think the disposable income period from about 1997 to Covid was a blip. Prior to that people with children did not have very much left over after paying for: housing, food, utilities and running a moderate car. Eating out more than once a flood was rare, a mnlanicure was a very special occasion treat, tea or coffee put was a treat, not everyone had holidays abroad, clothes were made to last and few people had a "show" home.

Was it that unusual, people still spent money but on different things surely? my mum never had manicures but she would get a perm etc. Pubs were a huge part of socialising which coffee shops have somewhat replaced. I don't know anyone with a show home now.

@ApathyCentral so how many wealthy people have left vs other years? Surely you aren't saying all wealthy people are leaving? Why do you think millionaires don't also have access to tax favourable regimes, some do.

The ones who currently pay tax but have realised they are shouldering the cost of a country where over 50% are net takers.

What do people expect the % of net takers to be with an ageing population.? Pensioners become net takers & as the state pension age increases the % of 60 yr olds who can't work due to ill health etc increases.

@zupro, I don't know any pensioners who are net takers. The majority of pensioners simply take their state pension to which they are entitled.

DH and I are mid sixties and still working and still pating high rates of tax. If we were to become ill, we'd take our occupational pensions pending state pension.

Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realise that putting forward the fact that I do know of people leaving would require me to act as the Office National Statistics for you.

You have Google the same as anyone else. Use it.

And no, I’m clearly not saying they are all leaving. Which is obvious if you engage with my words at their face value. I said I know of ones that are, and they’ve been clear as to their reasons.

@RosesAndHellebores what are you struggling to understand?

When other posters refer to the percentage of net recipients & contributors what do you think they are referencing?

My parents could afford mortgage and large family on a single wage - they were completely skint and we didn't do holidays or have a car or much in the way of new clothes and in fact lack of money was an enormous stress and pressure with food getting increasingly basic in the last half of the month but they did manage it.

We couldn't keep our house if only one of us worked and I now earn more money than I ever thought possible. But I also have financial freedom, my own pension and savings and could stand alone if I needed to - my mum couldn't. So yes I do feel a bit disappointed that I somehow got to this salary and it doesn't mean what it did because of the rapid leap in the price of everything- but I also take the long view.of how lucky I am in comparison to my mum.

I'm not struggling to understand anything except your generalisations. Not all those of pension age take more than they give or have ever given.

You are coming across as very ageist and discriminatory.

"Meanwhile, pensioners are overwhelmingly classed as net recipients, with 85.3pc receiving more from the Government than they contribute."

An ageing population means an increase of net recipients & as I said as the age of pension increases a higher % will be classed as working age.

This may help you understand the concept @RosesAndHellebores

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/19/more-than-half-of-britain-receives-more-in-benefits/

I'm not struggling to understand anything except your generalisations. Not all those of pension age take more than they give or have ever given.

You clearly are, I haven't expressed an opinion just facts...

Where have I said every single pensioner has taken more out than they have paid in?

You are coming across as very ageist and discriminatory.

By explaining where the 50% net recipients comes from? I think the net recipients argument lacks nuance & as I keep saying is inevitable with an ageing population. Again not my opinion...

Here you go. Reread the last pwragraph above.

Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realise that putting forward the fact that I do know of people leaving would require me to act as the Office National Statistics for you.

You said "the wealthy are leaving/have left the country because it is far too expensive to operate"

I am sure you know people who are leaving but I asked for context re the above statement....

@RosesAndHellebores the vast majority of pensioners become net recipients simply because they are pensioners? Why is that controversial?

But you didn't qualify your statement by saying the majority. In any event if 85% take out more than they put in after retirement, it's highly likely many of that 85% were putting in more than they were taking out prior to retirement. That is the point of NI and some of our taxes. Let's not forget that employers also make significant NI contributions on behalf of their workers.

I’ve had to cancel my cleaners.

I didn't say all either? So the whole confusion you had & the accusations of ageism was because when I was explaining that an ageing population & more pensioners means more net recipients was because I didn't caveat by saying the majority? 😆

And this from someone who keeps replying to my posts taking about themselves and their circle which has no relevance when talking about statistics

@RosesAndHellebores I am not responsible for the coining the term net recipients or defining who is one. Take it up with the government.

Not really, but household bills have gone up for sure. I try to do some extra work and I'm frugal in that we buy all 2nd hand clothes and aren't fussed about tech or eating out. I couldn't afford these things, so just as well!

I'm curious about this statement too.Its well known that a large number of high net worth individuals use other nations for tax evasion like James Dyson,that's been a long-term thing under a previous government. The Pimlico plumbers millionaire flounced off to Spain when Labour got in,before any tax changes occurred. The super wealthy across the world always have these options and find reasons to justify this.
Are there a large amount of other well-known figures who have begun to newly evade tax in the last year?

It’s unrecognisable from 2010 when we decided to have children. I wouldnt bring a kitten into this shit show

@Teaforthetotal I guess we need to google

Oh no Roses that's sacrilege! Remember that pensioners have 'paid in all their lives' . As they will remind you constantly, whilst ignoring the fact that in monetary terms, the actual amount they get in pension is way more than they paid in.
In fact, the vast majority of UK population are net beneficiaries, in that the total value of services and benefits they receive is more than the tax they ever pay in. Myself included.
We rely on wealthy tax payers, who pay a disproportionate amount of UK overall tax take. No-one on the left likes to admit this.

@RosesAndHellebores remember I was referencing pensioners in the context of net recipients. Net recipients are about 50% of the population as I said so logically not every single pensioner is a net recipient. I assumed that was inferred...

In fact, the vast majority of UK population are net beneficiaries, in that the total value of services and benefits they receive is more than the tax they ever pay in. Myself included.

Exactly! I don't understand why some are so triggered by it. High earners can become net recipients because it's the overall cost of a lifetime. That's why it's such a meaningless soundbite.