If you are middle class do you feel your lifestyle is eroding?

[ceramicwitch]

Now I know that as long as we can afford to heat your home, pay your mortgage / rent and afford to feed yourself and your family you can't complain too much. However I am interested if you feel you used to have a a middle class lifestyle, able to afford nicer bits or activities if you feel that is being eroded?

I think I am feeling it, we used to be quite free with putting nice things in the basket at waitrose (not where we go all the time but where we get treats and more premium things) and not we are holding back quite a bit more. We usually go to the Theatre a few times a year and the ballet, especially at Christmas but this year we are giving it a miss due to ever increasing costs. We've stopped going to cafes if not on holiday.

I have good friends who live in quite an expensive part of town, He is a Doctor and they seemed to be quite oblivious to cost of living the past few years but the other day I was talking to him and he was saying how he doesn't much enjoy eating out these days as the cost of it sticks in his throat, even cheap and cheerful is quite pricy now.

Anyone else feeling that quality of life even for the supposedly well insulated middle classes is in decline?

Can I ask you definition of working class because to me what you’ve described sounds more middle class.

I agree with the posts about eating out. We used to do it quite regularly - each birthday, anniversary, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, etc.
It probably worked out as once or twice a month.

Now, it’s more than £200, so takes the enjoyment out of it.

I also can’t imagine paying for a night in a hotel, as a treat. I’d prefer to do a day trip and come home.

I do still save all year for an annual foreign summer holiday, but have cut back in other areas for this - cancelled subscriptions and basically stopped buying anything unnecessary (am aware that this isn’t a moan and quite a privileged position to be in).
For instance, I just wouldn’t dream of buying clothes, new pyjamas, shoes, a rug, wine glasses.. just frivolous spending that I used to do.
I still occasionally watch the fashion bloggers who try to convince us to buy, and it all just feels so wasteful and unnecessary.

We don’t get takeaway or eat out as much. It’s expensive and regularly disappointing.

It’s very noticeable. Was in a local cafe (NW town in England, nothing special) and a bowl of lentil soup and bog standard bread roll was £10 and this was the cheapest thing on the menu. I can afford this, but it just feels like we’re being massively ripped off all the time. I rarely eat out now.

I just had a quick look. A two bedroom retirement flat near me is £350k with a service charge of £15k a year!

Yeah, but I’m not referring to retirement flats - I am talking about houses. I see loads on the market under the 60+ scheme

In addition to the increased cost of living, the middle classes , and by this I mean mid-high earners, have huge mortgages, bigger student loans, hugely increased, huge childcare payments and out the other end, a large number of posters are subsidising student children living away from home.These expenses are all much larger than they would have been 15 years ago and very few earners on these incomes have seen the kind of wage increases that can robustly take this. Add in the inflation of recent years and the increased tax bands and you can see why so many are affected.
I've definitely become way more discerning about my spending choices. Haven't cut back on children's activities yet but regularly review everything. Definitely less eating out, cut spending on alcohol and am cautious about spending on kids days out as so many are £100 plus and there are many free outings available.
Having said this I know many families who still seem to find the cash for a seemingly great lifestyle but presumably they're cutting in other areas too.

What scheme do you mean?

I've never done what you describe. Probably four family restaurant meals a month and no spending on pyjamas and wine glasses for the sake of it. We are moderately wealthy.

Yes. Husband and I both work full time, middle earners in the public sector. We used to have a foreign holiday once a year and eat out once or twice a month, otherwise lived quite modestly but felt comfortable, were able to save a bit and never felt anxious about an unexpected bill cropping up. Now, we live hand to mouth - we can always pay our regular bills but anything unexpected has to go on a credit card, we often have to put the final food shop or tank of petrol of the month on a credit card and we do camping holidays as it's the only way we can afford a break. I am grateful that we are safe and warm, and our children are always fed and are able to do some extracurricular activites (we treate these as utility bills and somethjng we just have to find the money for). We both work gruelling hours, and whilst I know we are better off than many people out there, it feels like we are running on a treadmill which we can't get off and there are very few treats. Each time one of us has a payrise, bills go up to absorb this and our mortgage is due to finish when we are 70. It feels relentless.

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Yes, we feel our lifestyle has eroded in the past few years.

Our mortgage has trebled, it was £400, now it's £1.2k a month. Our council tax is £400 a month. We don't put the heating on and even so our gas and electricity is £300 a month.

We've already put our children through private school and paid for them to go to universities but probably couldn't afford to do it now with the VAT on fees.

The cheese I buy was £3 a year ago, now it's £5.40, olive oil is £14 a bottle, everything seems to cost more and be lower quality.

And address the fact that child maintenance "doesn't count" in income. So even when the absent parent is paying for their child the state pays in full too.

If a single parent wants to claim benefits then the maintenance of the absent parent should go into a state account to reimburse the public purse for some of the benefit money.

No 50:50 arrangements designed to avoid maintenance. If the parents can't decide who is the resident parent a court should.

I would suggest we are not comparing like for like. I live in a very mid-middle class area. Our cars are at least 10 years old, we holiday frugally. Most people in our circle have a big shiny new SUV, pay for holidays on credit, have back breaking mortgages. I’m not saying taking advantage of available credit is a bad thing, each to their own. But we are mortgage free, own our cars outright, pay for things not on credit.

so looking in from outwards we might look like the struggling neighbour, but in the long term we feel secure and know our kids will receive assets with no debt associated.

Yes they are leaving. I know of a fair few.

its not the billionaire la you need to look at - they have tax arrangements meaning the govt can barely touch them - its the millionaires and business owners. The ones who currently pay tax but have realised they are shouldering the cost of a country where over 50% are net takers.

We need a multi-factorial approach. Need to look at all groups. Even the net takers, that needs to reduce. There are many out of work, who can work but choose not to.

I think many people, including me, think it's vital to help their kids at university. Especially when they aren't entitled to the full maintenance loan because of the parents' income level.

I don’t think necessarily having a large mortgage is a bad thing.

That’s an interesting idea.

Yes, this is not sustainable.

Sadly, I think the disposable income period from about 1997 to Covid was a blip. Prior to that people with children did not have very much left over after paying for: housing, food, utilities and running a moderate car. Eating out more than once a flood was rare, a mnlanicure was a very special occasion treat, tea or coffee put was a treat, not everyone had holidays abroad, clothes were made to last and few people had a "show" home.

I blame social media for creating a lot of the unrealistic ideals that you’ve mentioned here

Yes OP, cost of living has really gone up since Covid in my mind, and seems to keep going up. I thought we’d be laughing now our child care costs have gone down since our youngest started school, and we both earn decent salaries. However our lifestyle hasn’t changed really as our food bill and the cost of living has just eaten the savings.

I do think about how on earth people on low wages are coping every time I pay for the food shopping. The increases since 2020 are staggeringly high.

We haven’t massively altered our ‘way of life’ but are very aware of what the costs are in a way that we were fairly oblivious too in the past.

Out of interest I just went on the pizza express website. Somewhere we’d previously have eaten without a second thought - maybe on the way home from a day out or a weekday evening if we couldnt be bothered with dinner.

A pizza is about £20 which is just insane, add in drinks, maybe some dough balls, tip and you’re well over £100 for a very basic meal out. It’s just not worth it, especially when we’re spending so much more on groceries already.

We give ourselves about £1k a month for a family of 4 to cover food, entertainment, clothes and that used to stretch to care free grocery shopping, a few meals out, coffee and cakes out, activities.

Now it’s very very planned online shopping, spending £400 - £500pcm just on supermarket shops, and the rest for low scale activities like swimming, and very rarely clothes. I never get my nails done anymore. We eat out maybe once a month. Get coffee but not cake.

Obviously we’re not on the breadline, but we are very conscious of what we’re spending.