If you are middle class do you feel your lifestyle is eroding?

[ceramicwitch]

Now I know that as long as we can afford to heat your home, pay your mortgage / rent and afford to feed yourself and your family you can't complain too much. However I am interested if you feel you used to have a a middle class lifestyle, able to afford nicer bits or activities if you feel that is being eroded?

I think I am feeling it, we used to be quite free with putting nice things in the basket at waitrose (not where we go all the time but where we get treats and more premium things) and not we are holding back quite a bit more. We usually go to the Theatre a few times a year and the ballet, especially at Christmas but this year we are giving it a miss due to ever increasing costs. We've stopped going to cafes if not on holiday.

I have good friends who live in quite an expensive part of town, He is a Doctor and they seemed to be quite oblivious to cost of living the past few years but the other day I was talking to him and he was saying how he doesn't much enjoy eating out these days as the cost of it sticks in his throat, even cheap and cheerful is quite pricy now.

Anyone else feeling that quality of life even for the supposedly well insulated middle classes is in decline?

Haha yes. Google has thrown up a recentish Money Week article but it is mainly about a higher number of non-doms leaving to avail of other options to buy citizenship such as US and UAE. Apparently London and UK is still seen as a safe haven to invest in, given turbulence around the world. So perhaps not as dire as eluded to above.

@RosesAndHellebores The state pension was originally designed to be paid for only a few years: the original average was no more than ten. Now people are retiring in their sixties and living for 20-30+ years afterwards. The result is that they are taking out far more than they “put in”. And, importantly, the state pension has never been a savings scheme, anyway; it’s paid out by current workers. This worked fine when there were four or five workers in the pyramid for every pensioner. Now there is a demographic bulge of older people, so there’s only 2-3 workers for every pensioner. This means that paying out the state pension has become an unsustainable liability, because there are simply not enough younger workers to pay for it plus all the tax for everything else.

Added to that, of course, is the fact that the over-60s own the vast majority of the housing stock which has increased in real terms way beyond the ability of salaries to keep up.

What about that situation strikes you as fair for younger workers, who already face extremely disproportionate costs of housing relative to incomes, and are already shouldering the burden of paying out for pensions at unsustainable levels?

Why do you think the over-60s should eat up unearned housing wealth PLUS take unsustainable pension amounts PLUS rely on younger workers to pay increased tax for their healthcare? And to just make sure the country functions?

While I understand this sentiment, it is an alarming bell weather of what is to come. When you’ve got the middle classes sweating about how they’re going to pay for things it clearly shows economically there are huge huge problems. It means the working classes are below the poverty line. We are mirroring the US, and that is not good. It discourages our kids from striving because they can see even if they work hard and invest in university etc they still may not get ahead.

I'd love to know where we could get a flat, in an independent living complex for oldies like us for half price! We need to remain near ur support network and specialist hospital. As well as buying it, we'd also have to be able to afford the ongoing maintenance charges and leasehold costs.

The schemes I am referring to are not independent living complexes though - of course you are gonna need to pay service charges on these, annd they are going to be a premium / expensive. That’s what you’re paying for unfortunately

That’s very true actually. What’s the point of being middle class? What is the point of striving? What will that mean for productivity? Worrying future

We consider ourselves both middle class and working class. Anyone who works is part of the working class, and we work to maintain our middle-class lifestyle. As a stay-at-home mom with passive income, I focus on safeguarding our assets and preparing for worst-case scenarios, using AI tools to help plan ahead. My husband, a high earner, is also taking measures to protect our future. We adhere to strict budgets and only exceed them when emergencies arise.

I've noticed that Mumsnet can be quite ageist toward people over 50 years old. I've also observed a strong bias against pensioners, with some even sharing thinly veiled ideas about getting rid of them, as if that would fix the country's issues while politicians continue to laugh and rob us blind.

I get the impression that @zupro dislikes pensioners and secretly wishes for their downfall, despite them being taxpayers, which seems to be a reality she struggles to accept.

I understand that people are angry about the idea of never being able to retire, but the truth is they can retire if they take the necessary steps to make it happen. There's no need to hate pensioners; instead, research and learn how to build a comfortable retirement rather than placing blame on them.

Yes Labour politicians might try to demonise higher tax payers for votes but if we all fall into a space where we can’t afford stuff, bar a few, then we really are in trouble.

Not really. Although inflation has definitely meant we are spending more, the increase in equity and asset values has more than made up for it. I did wince a bit booking skiing accommodation for next year though - unfortunately climate change has meant that everyone wants to go to high altitude resorts now and our preferred resort has become quite pricey as a result. At least there is only another three years until the youngest is out of school and we can go in January rather than at peak.

Got to love Mumsnet when people are wincing at booking a ski holiday but still anticipating the next four years of going!!

Im part to of the lucky camp that can afford things but don’t buy them as I don’t think they’re worth the money. Nothing has changed for me in that respect though. I grew up with a mother who wouldn’t have dreamed of having her nails done. Meals out were once a year or occasional fish and chips. Holidays were uk beach based with one or two very special long haul trips. Dh and I have followed that lifestyle and for a long time felt very counter cultural!

Agree! Sick of the “do I need to downgrade the ski resort I go to” kind of posters 🤣

OK HUN

I wouldn’t call this Middle Class… Middle class can’t afford ski holidays every year… especially in peak season dahhhhling.

Thanks for clarifying @PeonyPatch. Pointless us moving from a three bedroomed house with stairs to another house of the same size.

You may be able to find other smaller properties under the scheme though x

Well obviously some of the middle class can. Who else is booking up accommodation and selling out ski passes at ski resorts every year then?

@ThisTicklishFatball what have I said that shows I dislike pensioners? I don't like the net recipients argument.

Yes Labour politicians might try to demonise higher tax payers for votes but if we all fall into a space where we can’t afford stuff, bar a few, then we really are in trouble.

I would argue we are already in trouble and have been for some time. People have stopped having dc.

I don't understand the argument that pensioners take out more than they pay in. Of course they do, money is worth more now than when they were paying taxes thirty years ago. Imagine how much NI you would have to pay to account for thirty to forty years of inflation.
It's like saying house prices should never go up, wages should never go up.
I get we will have more pensioners for a short period of time, one or two gens? Then it evens out.
Pension age has gone up, people are often not in good health in their seventies, if they make it that far. Im sure we can weather a few decades of paying pensioners their pensions.

My DH and I think that’s more Upper Middle and Upper Class…

That’s ok. In twenty odd years AI will likely mean we don’t need as many and unemployment is too high. Better to look at taxes related to AI than increasing birth rate.

@EasternStandard who said anything about increasing birth rate? That ship has sailed, no country has reversed once rates are below replacement rate. I was just making the point that we are already in trouble & many have already opted out of having dc or more dc due to affordability.

We certainly couldn’t afford more than one!

Better to look at taxes related to AI

It will be interesting to see what this looks like

Yes - I'm really feeling it and it's depressing I work really hard, but cannot afford to treat myself any more when I used to be able to.

Yes, and the way prices are going I shall be forced to eat at a Toby Carvery, and not my favourite restaurant 😱

It was made clear in an earlier thread that they are [whispers] working class establishments!

Whatever next?!