Ukraine Invasion: Part 59

[MagicFox]

Well, it’s thread 59.

Thanks to all regular contributors, especially those doing the daily hard work. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦

Agreed thread guidance:

A. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events

B. If you post a link please tell us where it leads/give a precis of the content

C. Discussion and debate is welcome, but please keep it respectful

D. Please keep on topic

Willingness is an issue for sure, because it will be politically unpopular to massively increase defence spending when spending is restricted in so many other areas, and governments are generally short sighted and won't look further than the next election.

The company I was working for (technically still am but we all got laid off so I found another job) is trying to switch from building private planes for rich people to building unmanned aircraft for the military (and others - dual use) but trying to find funding is incredibly hard, and the government's interest lasted all of 5 minutes it seems which is so frustrating - we could be improving defence capabilities but can't without initial funding.

Some of the big ones are @notimagain Poland, Germany are both introducing voluntary military service. Both are moving towards considerable military investment.

Yes, Spain, Portugal and the ones far to the West of Europe are riding on their geography (as Switzerland does) but the ones who have experience of Russian occupation are moving now.

Whatever else, at this point the US is essential to survival of Ukraine - I think we can all agree we regret that situation bitterly, but it is the case.

So I'm afraid that we do indeed have to mention the US and its leader at the moment.

Yes, France is considering moving to something similar.

Interesting that any such idea being floated for the UK, even for civil defence training or similar, usually gets met with lots of resistance on MN..

I do sometimes wonder about the motives of some of the the really vehement "anti" posters ..and sometimes TBH also their location.

Wonder the same too. Sure there will of course people against it because its scary, but some are rather over-egging the arguments.

Kyiv Independent Telegram Highlights

⚡️ No agreement on Donbas yet, Zelensky says (kyivindependent.com/zelensky-arrives-in-london-to-discuss-ukraine-peace-efforts-with-european-leaders/) as he visits London to discuss US-led peace efforts with European leaders.
"There are visions of the U.S., Russia, and Ukraine — and we don't have a unified view on Donbas," Zelensky told Bloomberg regarding the latest discussions on the peace plan for Ukraine.

⚡️ Update: Trump has 'his own vision' on resolving the war, different from Ukraine's perspective, Zelensky says (kyivindependent.com/zelensky-arrives-in-london-to-discuss-ukraine-peace-efforts-with-european-leaders/).
President Volodymyr Zelensky reiterated that Ukraine is not considering the possibility of renouncing its territory to Russia.

⚡️Zelensky reveals (kyivindependent.com/zelensky-reveals-candidates-for-new-head-of-ukraines-presidents-office/) candidates for new head of Ukraine's Presidential Office.
The list includes Denys Shmyhal, Ukraine's defense minister and previously the longest-serving prime minister, Digital Transformation Minister Mykhailo Fedorov, military intelligence chief Kyrylo Budanov, Deputy Presidential Office head and ex-commander Pavlo Palisa, and Sergiy Kyslytsya, the first deputy foreign minister and one of Ukraine's key negotiators.

⚡️Russian mass drone attack (kyivindependent.com/russian-mass-drone-attack-leaves-sumy-without-power/) leaves Sumy without power.
Sumy has been left without power following Russian attacks on the northeastern city late on Dec. 8.

⚡️ Netherlands allocates additional 700 million euros (kyivindependent.com/netherlands-allocates-additional-700-million-euros-for-ukraine-in-2026/) for Ukraine in 2026.
The move follows an appeal from the Dutch parliament to release an additional 2 billion euros ($2.3 billion) in support for Kyiv for next year.
The first sum of 700 million euros (almost $820 million) was described as the "first step."

⚡️ Lithuania declares state of emergency (kyivindependent.com/lithuania-declares-state-of-emergency-over-smuggler-balloons-from-belarus/) over smuggler balloons from Belarus.
This move will allow state institutions to coordinate their response more effectively and involve the military.

⚡️ Ukrainian drones destroy 70% of fuel tanks (kyivindependent.com/ukrainian-drones-destroy-70-of-fuel-tanks-at-russias-temryuk-seaport-general-staff-says/) at Russia's Temryuk Seaport, General Staff says.
The facility targeted in the Dec. 5 attack handles various types of cargo, including liquefied natural gas used to supply the Russian military.

⚡️ EU approves new defense program (kyivindependent.com/eu-approves-new-defense-program-opens-path-for-ukraines-industry-integration/), opens path for Ukraine's industry integration.
Within this program, 300 million euros ($350 million) will fund a dedicated Ukraine Support Instrument that focuses on modernizing Ukraine's defense industry and integrating it into the EU's broader defense-manufacturing network.

⚡️ Ukraine war latest live (kyivindependent.com/ukraine-war-latest-update-2025-12-8/): Kyiv shifts focus to soldier training and safety amid continued Russian offensive, Syrskyi says.

⚡️ Zelensky meets Pope Leo XIV (kyivindependent.com/zelensky-meets-pope-leo-xiv-as-he-continues-seeking-support-amid-peace-talks/) as he continues seeking support amid peace talks.
President Volodymyr Zelensky is also set to meet Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni later in the day as he continues a tour of European capitals.

⚡️ 'It burns for 3 days (kyivindependent.com/sbu-drones-struck-liquefied-natural-gas-terminal-in-russias-temryuk-port-source-says/)' — SBU drone strike sparked huge fire at Russia's Temryuk Seaport, source says.
The strike has reportedly destroyed around 70% of the facility’s total fuel tanks.

⚡️ Ukrainian Su-27 pilot dies (kyivindependent.com/ukrainian-su-27-pilot-dies-on-combat-mission-in-eastern-ukraine/) during combat mission.
The circumstances of Lieutenant Colonel Yevhenii Ivanov's death are being investigated.

⚡️ Russian soldiers jailed over torture, murder of American pro-Kremlin fighter (kyivindependent.com/russia-jails-soldiers-over-americans-death/) last year.
Four Russian soldiers were given sentences in the range of 1.5 to 12 years for their involvement in the murder of Russell "Texas" Bentley and an attempt to conceal the crime.

In the middle of war, Ukraine's top university reimagines (kyivindependent.com/in-the-middle-of-war-ukraines-university-reimagines-russian-studies/) Russian Studies
Eleven years into Russia’s war, a Ukrainian university is forging ahead with an unexpected academic pursuit: launching a Russian Studies program to study the country that had imposed itself on Ukraine.
“Our goal is to study Russia from different angles — its economy, its society, its elites, its foreign policy — in order to take a critical look at what Russia has done to us and the world,” said Professor Maksym Yakovlyev, co-founder of the program at the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy, one of Ukraine’s oldest and most prestigious universities.

⚡️Death toll in Russia's Nov. 19 attack on Ternopil (kyivindependent.com/rescue-efforts-continue-for-second-day-after-russian-strike-in-western-ternopil-22-remain-26-killed/) rises to 38.

Ragnar Bjartur Gudmundsson 🇺🇦
‪@ragnarbjartur.bsky.social‬
⚡️ WAR IN UKRAINE & RUSSIA — DEC 9, 2025
■ Engagements and casualties remain below the 7-day average
■ Drone and artillery losses are above average
■ Overnight attacks: triple-digit, all drones; decent interception rate, 9 locations hit
■ 🇷🇺 air strikes above average, and the most 🇺🇦 strikes in nearly two weeks; the 30-day 🇷🇺/🇺🇦 strike ratio improves

@notimagain observing over time I don't think there's any doubt there's an ill-meaning cohort with an agenda. But I also think that there is a gigantic complacency within the UK, I'm afraid.

UNITED24 Media Telegram Highlights

The topic of [yesterday's]’s meeting between President Zelenskyy and European leaders in London was security guarantees and Ukraine’s post-war reconstruction, the Elysée Palace reported. It was also noted that the meeting made it possible to continue work on the so-called US peace plan.

Kazakhstan plans to ship 50,000 tons of oil from its Kashagan field directly to China for the first time, after a Ukrainian drone damaged the Caspian Pipeline Consortium (CPC) Black Sea port terminal.
The CPC is currently operating only one of its three loading facilities, as one was heavily damaged and another is undergoing scheduled repairs.

The EU Council has approved the European Defence Industrial Programme (EDIP), allocating €300 million to support the Ukrainian defense industry.
The program provides grants totaling €1.5 billion for 2025–2027, with €300 million specifically dedicated to the special Support Instrument for Ukraine.
EDIP aims to strengthen the EU’s defense readiness by enhancing the competitiveness and capabilities of the European defense industrial base.
The EU will fund joint procurement by at least three countries and increase production of critical defense products. The budget may be supplemented by voluntary contributions from member states or third parties.
The document will be signed on December 17 and will take effect the day after its publication in the Official Journal of the EU.

A family with children riding bicycles to fetch water in Kostiantynivka came under Russian fire.
A 42-year-old man and his 32-year-old wife, along with their two children — a 7-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy — were injured. All four sustained mine-explosive trauma, shrapnel wounds, and contusions.
Doctors assess the condition of the parents and children as moderate.

Russian propagandist and Soloviev LIVE host called for extermination of Ukrainians on the left bank of Ukraine and added that such actions would be “a pragmatic move.” Such rhetoric only confirms that Russia’s war against Ukraine is genocidal in nature. Russia’s real goal is to stall any peace agreement in order to gain a foothold for further occupation of Ukrainian territory.

Satellite images of Bakhmut, Donetsk region, completely destroyed during the fighting

Kyiv Post Telegram Highlights

Trump Administration Insisting Ukraine Hand Donbas to Putin – Politico
Kyiv has been attempting to stress to Washington (www.kyivpost.com/post/65837) that granting Vladimir Putin territory he has failed to seize after years of war would only embolden further aggression.

Japan has flatly rejected the EU’s attempt to tap frozen Russian assets for Ukraine (www.kyivpost.com/post/65874) — a major blow to Brussels and a sign that momentum behind the plan is weakening just as Kyiv needs it most.

Putin isn’t planning to end the war. He has signed a decree calling up reservists for 2026 training. (www.kyivpost.com/post/65859)
Russia’s mobilization reserve includes volunteers under contract — about 100,000 people as of official 2021 data.

President Volodymyr Zelensky emphasized that Ukraine will not consider giving up any of its territory — a position grounded in national law, international norms, and basic moral principles.
Key points from Zelensky’s online briefing:
▪️ The U.S. peace plan has been reduced from 28 to 20 points.
▪️ The Americans want to find compromises — but none exist when it comes to territory.
▪️ Donald Trump has “his own vision” for how the war should end, which differs from Ukraine’s.
▪️ Trading Ukrainian territory for security guarantees is not being considered.
▪️ The U.S. will continue supplying weapons to Ukraine — they profit from it, and it aligns with their current policy.
▪️ Security advisers from Ukraine and Europe will finalize the peace plan draft brought from Miami by Tuesday evening to hand it over to the U.S.

Russia’s giant An-22 — the world’s largest turboprop — has crashed in Ivanovo region. (www.kyivpost.com/post/65871)
Preliminary reports say it belonged to the Defense Ministry and carried 7 crew members. @notimagain

OPINION: The Deadly Delusion of Dealing Away Ukraine
Why Europe understands this (https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/65821)while Trump and his Witkoffs, Vances, Hegseth’s and Musks don’t want to get it

Behind Washington’s assurances to a visiting UK official, Western allies privately scramble to prevent Kyiv from being coerced into a deal widely (www.kyivpost.com/post/65845) seen as favorable to the Kremlin.

Merz after London talks: “Ukraine’s fate is Europe’s fate.” (https://www.kyivpost.com/post/65832)
Macron and Merz left the UK Prime Minister’s office after the joint meeting, while Starmer and Zelensky continued talks inside.

Live: Ukraine Telegram Highlights

🇲🇩Moldova blocked a $107 million cryptocurrency fund that was intended to finance pro-Russian parties.
With these funds, the fund's owners sought to finance protests, violence, and influence other political forces. Cryptocurrencies were chosen deliberately: they ensure fast payments and an unlimited number of transactions that are difficult to track.
According to Moldovan Foreign Minister Mihai Popșoi, this is just one episode of Moscow's interference in Moldova's internal affairs. At the same time, he believes that over the last 5–6 years, his country has become more resilient to threats from the Russian Federation.
▪️In late November, Moldovan Parliament Speaker Igor Grosu stated that Russia invested nearly €400 million in attempts to buy parliamentary seats in the elections. Despite this, the pro-European Party of Action and Solidarity (PAS) of President Maia Sandu won.

🇬🇧UK is investing approximately $22.6 million in Ukraine's green energy sector.
The investments, under the Innovate Ukraine initiative, will be able to strengthen Ukraine's energy sector and attract new technologies and engineers.
Over the course of 24 months, Ukraine and Britain will develop large-scale clean energy solutions. This involves 14 projects.
▪️Green energy is the production of electricity from renewable, inexhaustible natural sources —such as the sun, wind, water, Earth's heat, and biomass — without harming the environment.

On December 8, Russian forces launched an air strike on Kramatorsk in Donetsk Oblast. As a result, a 44-year-old man, his 40-year-old wife, and their two children, aged 6 and 8, were injured.

In Ternopil, the bodies of two more people were found who had been considered missing after Russia struck a 9-story residential building with a missile on the night of November 19.
Thus, the number of victims that day has reached 38 people, including 8 children.

I'm not sure we need a reminder of why we are supporting Ukraine but as it happens, it's International Genocide Day.

notimagain
Interesting that any such idea being floated for the UK, even for civil defence training or similar, usually gets met with lots of resistance on MN..

Er, yes, the place is called MUMSnet. The words "not my son!" are likely to be the salient ones in play.

And that will be the case until the country is invaded with the accusation that it is a fascist state and the members of the invader's country who have moved here are being Oppressed in some unspecified way those people haven't themselves noticed, and the bombs start to fall on our towns and villages.

https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-december-8-2025/

Key Takeaways

1. Russian President Vladimir Putin is trying to portray the Russian economy as able to support a protracted war in Ukraine — likely to buttress the ongoing Russian cognitive warfare effort falsely claiming that a Russian victory is inevitable.
2. Kremlin officials continue to demonstrate Russia’s unwillingness to compromise to end Russia’s war against Ukraine.
3. Russia is reportedly planning to foment protests in Ukraine, likely to support the longstanding Kremlin narrative that the Ukrainian government is illegitimate.
4. Russian forces recently advanced near Borova and Pokrovsk.

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Wake up, sleepyhead Europe.

I fear it will take bombs starting to fall on our towns and villages, as @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime puts it, for the EU politicians and general population further away situated to wake up to the threat of, by then invasion by, Russia.

Since Rachel Reeves seems to have bagged more taxes at the recent Autumn budget than is needed, I am hoping that is available to spend on defence ... but somehow I don't think so. She is going to spend it on more benefits <head in hands>

Actually I think that the motives of those against national service and or increased defence spending are fairly clear - they don't give a crap about Ukraine and even if the UK were attacked then it's someone else's job to defend the UK and it's someone else's taxes or spending cuts to pay for it.

Interestingly if the UK were to taken over or at least heavily influenced under a "grey zone" conflict by an autocratic regime such as Russia or China then it's those very same people who object to national service or object to increased defence spending that would suffer the most. Want to protest against an autocratic regime then off you disappear.

On the Sky News video on German national service there was a telling interview with a young woman who objected to national service or being involved in wars under any circumstance. She was asked "well what if Germany itself was invaded by a hostile country?". Her answer was that she would still not support defending Germany and would instead simply move to another country.

Meanwhile in Finland the most recent poll showed 78% are willing to take part in national defence themselves, in the event of an attack on Finland.

I don't think that Trump can truly claim credit for finally getting certain European countries to increase their defence spending (in particular Germany).

Every President since JFK has been making the same point to European countries except none of them took any notice. It has taken the unprovoked aggression on Ukraine for some of them (such as Germany) to wake up - without this they would have continued to ignore US requests. But even now there are countries like Spain and Italy who will quite happily freeload of Germany's defence spending rather than increase their own.

In the case of Finland, pre 2021 their defence spending was consistently historically below 1.3%. It's only now that they have increased this to 2.4% and that's because despite their history they are only now recognising how big and how real a threat Russia is.

Zelenskyy has asked the parliament to prepare legislation to allow for a wartime election within about 90 days.

How do you know?

Asked many Finns?

This does not sound like a good idea. Surely Russia will influence it and try to install their own puppet.

That's certainly why Russia has been pushing for this for a while.

Trump yet again parroting Putin making this worse in Ukraine and shit stirring in Europe.
I am so angry with those who pushed him for the presidency and the harm that their actions have caused.

Putin is an arsehole, Trump is just pathetic. Why the rest of the World, especially Europe is tolerating this crap is beyond my comprehension. The BBC again gave too much airtime to Russia, just because Putin is Trumps second best buddy behind Epstein, it doesn't mean we have to fete him. Quit with the airtime, Ukraine will not be forgotten and actions now speak volumes.

UK serviceperson has died in Ukraine:
"He was injured in a tragic accident whilst observing Ukrainian forces test a new defensive capability, away from the front lines," according to MOD statement.

Not believed to have been caused by Russian fire.

Member of UK armed forces dies in accident in Ukraine
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e07kxey74o

Err - because their defence spending went from 1.29% in 2021 to 2.4% today.

My assumption is that their defence spending has recently increased because they now realise that Russia is a threat.

Of course you maybe correct that their defence spending has increased in recent years purely because of a uniform fetish and had absolutely nothing to do with feeling threatened by Russia. But I doubt it.