If you are anti private school are you also anti tutoring?

[WWGD]

Putting aside the obvious - that a tutor is about £2k a year and private school about £25k a year…

My kids are state educated. Many of our friends are surprised by this as they go private, but our objection is political as much as financial. We just don’t believe it is right to buy that level of privilege and opportunity. We’d also rather spend that money on holidays etc.

dd has asked for a tutor in subjects she is struggling with. I have arranged this. But this too is buying privilege and opportunity. Though not the networking and prestige.

I am comfortable with my decisions. I am just wondering whether people who are anti private school for political reasons also think tutoring is beyond the pale?

I was going to put this in aibu but actually am interested in people’s views rather than being flamed.

What rubbish, @pottylolly my ds got 5s in y10 mock English exams. We paid for a tutor for one year and he ended up with 8s. He was at a pretty rubbish school though.

Honestly, your poor kids. This seems way OTT.

Aye, so you do.

The children at state schools receive teaching from teachers with the same qualifications as private schools. In my experience of dipping in and out of both systems, we have had better organised teaching for the most part in the state sector. In private schools you are paying to do activities a part of a longer school day, instead of as part of a club in the community that operates after school. This can be convenient in households with two commuting parents. The exam results mostly reflect how selective the intake is.

@Genevieva Private school teachers do not require QTS.

Neither do teachers in state Academies in England, which make up over 80% of state secondary schools.

@twistyizzy That's unfortunately true now. But private teachers are even less likely to have the qualification.
When I first started teaching 22 years ago you needed min 2:1 degree to even be accepted onto teacher training. Now you don't even officially need a GCSE.
I no longer teach - best decision I ever made.
Now a tutor.

But private teachers are even less likely to have the qualification" have you got data on that?
Because anecdotally I don't know any teachers in the local independent schools who aren't QTS. Parents paying 20K+ generally no longer accept that state of play.

@twistyizzy It's been the case for a very long time that they don't in private education - less so than in state.
Having said that, I don't have much experience of private education as I don't agree with in on principle so all three of mine were state.
Disappointly, most parents IME (primary at least) are happy to accept non-qualified teachers and HLTAs/TAs taking classes so it is happening more and more. Senior teachers are frequently being managed out as obviously they are more expensive and qualifications seen as irrelevant.

I don't think anyone care at all whether other parents choose to tutor, privately school or both for their kids.

If they do care, they shouldn't. Just mind own business or go into education management.

You claimed ot is common in independent schools, can you back that up with data? Otherwise it is just your opinion. You've admitted you don't have much experience with independent schools yet you make sweeping claims about the numbers of unqualified teachers they employ.

Like I said, anecdotally I can evidence that there are 0 unqualified teachers at the 2 closest independent schools to us but no way of telling for the state schools because they don't publish that information.

@twistyizzy The question is...are you happy with your child being taught by an unqualified teacher? Not sure if they are state or private? Either way it is by-the-by if you are.

No I'm not which is why I moved her to an independent school where they publish the qualifications each teacher. The state academy don't do this do there's no way of knowing.

However you admit you know little about independent schools so still not sure how you can make such sweeping claims.

@twistyizzy It's a shame that you feel you have to pay for this. I strongly feel all children have the right to a qualified teacher, although it is no longer guaranteed in either private or state. I do agree parents should always know if their child's teacher is unqualified, but realistically, what can they do with that information?
But then, on the other hand, I have been told "Anybody can be a teacher" so I doubt that would be a big deal to those parents.
You cannot enforce any school to provide qualified teachers now, be it state or private.

It is a shame yes that the local state secondary only achieves 20% of Yr 11s getting 5 x grade 5s at GCSE. That is a huge shame. Or that where we live consistently achieves bottom of the table for outcomes at GCSE, A level + destinations post education.
But that's what happens when you have a postcode lottery of state education.

FYI parents can force independent schools to employ qualified teachers ie voting with their cash + feet, as I said before. If I'm paying 20k I wouldn't accept unqualified teachers.

@twistyizzy My August-born son achieved three A-stars and one A this August for his A-Levels so state education did well by him I would say? His cousin, who was privately educated since the age of 3, did nowhere near as well and ended up having to go through clearing.
I think a HUGE success indicator is parental involvement, especially important in the years before school starts.
However, I also strongly believe the UK school starting age of 4 is far too early. I made the choice that my son would not do full-time Reception until the term before he turned 5 - he was mostly home educated by myself until that point. We only need to looka at the data of other countries - for example the Nordic ones - to see the benefit in starting school much later.

That's great, you live near good state schools. Do you think a figure of 20% achieving 5 x GCSEs is good though? Or is it just fine for my child?

Parental involvement can only go so far if your child is in classes with permanently disruptive kids and teachers are spending 80% of the lesson doing behaviour management.

Sorry but the smugness of your comment has really pissed me off, you obviously can't comprehend how some state schools aren't good and aren't churning out DC with A stars etc.

@twistyizzy Do you think it's acceptable only rich kids are more likely to be guaranteed a good education?
Do you disagree that parental involvement is a huge factor? You don't need money to do that.
My children are not privately educated like yours, but then I would not wish for them to be. That doesn't make me smug but I do wonder if you care about those children who have parents that genuinely cannot afford to send their kids to private schools?
Btw, the good state school isn't local.

No, EVERY child should have access to a hood education. The reality is that they don't and it is a postcode lottery. So parents do whatever they can eg tutors/grammars/buying £££ houses in the best catchments. It's complete hypocrisy that out of all these things, only independent schools are the evil, all other forms of buying your child a better education are accepted and encouraged.

Until any government actually funds education properly this will continue. If you are now a tutor then obviously you agree with buying privilege and advantage through tutoring a child?? Shouldn't all children have access to tutors? Is it fair that only the DC of wealthy parents have this opportunity?

It is clear you know nothing about independent schools by the way you talk about them yet you've obviously got a deep prejudice against them. You know 25% are on fee assistance ie from lower income families?

Quite often tutoring helps a child who is struggling with a subject find his way. Sometimes perfectly able students just need to have things explained one-to-one. It's the same for state and privately educated kids - and it's not the class teacher's fault either: people learn at different paces.

I bet private schools don’t have the same staffing issues as state schools. When vacancies exist the classes are essentially babysat by cover staff. So you may think the state schools have better qualified staff but they don’t have enough.

But it's only available to parents who can afford it. So tutoring your child to get them ahead is fine.....see how the logic doesn't logic

@twistyizzy Definitely not as I'm a EOTAS Tutor. I teach SEND children who have nearly always been badly let down. These children cannot access mainstream for a variety of reasons, not least due to a badly failing education system.
I am paid (a wage far less than my teaching scale rate was) through the LA. I mostly work with Looked After Children in care homes and I also give up my weekends to support a little boy in care (I don't charge for this).
I strongly believe a good education is the right of ALL children, not just ones born into privilege.
This is not happening and it is only getting worse because teachers (usually the experienced ones) have had enough.
The parents/carers I work with are often at a complete loss and again, this is not OK.

Then get cross with the government not with independent schools! The fact that state schools are woefully under funded isn't the fault of independent schools.
It's the fault of voters who don't prioritise education in manifestos etc.

@twistyizzy I'm not cross at independent schools - I just don't agree with the principle of them.