If you are anti private school are you also anti tutoring?

[WWGD]

Putting aside the obvious - that a tutor is about £2k a year and private school about £25k a year…

My kids are state educated. Many of our friends are surprised by this as they go private, but our objection is political as much as financial. We just don’t believe it is right to buy that level of privilege and opportunity. We’d also rather spend that money on holidays etc.

dd has asked for a tutor in subjects she is struggling with. I have arranged this. But this too is buying privilege and opportunity. Though not the networking and prestige.

I am comfortable with my decisions. I am just wondering whether people who are anti private school for political reasons also think tutoring is beyond the pale?

I was going to put this in aibu but actually am interested in people’s views rather than being flamed.

Absolutely agree. When people say they’d like to pay more tax. Yeah. Ok.

Education is not a luxury and the State got to withhold paying a thing for those privately educated children. Those children’s parents were subsidising the State.

Do you oppose private schooling?

If you do, what’s weird is that you can’t see the hypocrisy. Enough money to pay for a private school? Bad. But use the money to buy into the catchment of a good school and to spend on tutors. Super!

As for tax increases, they’ll make you poorer but they won’t improve public services without the sort of reform that Labour just cannot stomach.

Private education is a luxury.

You're overthinking it and people use tutors for different reasons. They may be necessary to just even the playing field.

To say that in this blanket way is ridiculous.

If the state happens to be offering sub-standard education, simply getting something better does not per se mean ‘luxury’. If a car has broken down and you get another one not broken down it does not mean it is by definition a Rolls Royce. And if it were that would be an example not just of luxury but also an example of excellence.

Nurseries can cost as much as private day schools. Getting a degree especially for people in long courses costs an absolute fortune. Are these ‘luxuries’ compared to foregoing higher education?

Not at all the same.....unless private school has class sizes of 1!

I am a leftie by nature and didn’t think anything of hiring a tutor when my SC was struggling with maths. GCSE maths is full on for a non-mathematician and given that she will not be taking maths A Level I can’t really see how it advantages her that much. I agree that in theory schools should be so good there is no need for tutors but I also know the reality of teenagers 100% listening to a subject that doesn’t interest them.

@Corse I'm primary - 22 years of experience with lots of SEND/SEMH experience in addition. My rates are from £32 - £45 ph.

Tutoring is generally short term though and focused on a specific subject. I am
ideologically opposed to private education, but having seen the impact of a ‘good’ school that was anything but on my own child, i would have paid for a better service had I have been able to. And I say this after serving 25 years in post compulsory education fed entirely by ropey state provision - it’s different when it’s your own.

Thinking about this a bit more, I also wonder if it is highly area-dependent. I also had the same experience with children from private schools having a certain attitude. However, where I grew up all the state schools in the town were actually pretty good (and still are), so the only real reason to go private for most people in that area is that you’re trying to buy privilege.

In areas where more of the state schools are failing, I wonder if you get different demographics using private and so the attitude is also different. Because I think there is a difference between going private because the state education is failing your child and going private because you don’t want your kids to mix with people from less privileged backgrounds.

Your first analogy is poor as the state does not provide free cars.

Degrees aren't a luxury hence VAT is not due on tuition fees.

Students with rich cultural capital often perform better in school and go on to do well in university and in the work place. They’re more likely to understand academic language, engage with diverse subjects, and feel confident in educational settings. This helps them to navigate social occasions such as interviews, interaction with teachers and networking opportunities both formal and informal.

Private tutoring can also help towards building social capital if the process is done thoughtfully. Tutors often model formal language, critical thinking, and effective communication - skills that are vital in interviews, presentations, and professional settings. One to one teaching helps to give students confidence in asking questions, presenting arguments and engaging in debate. A good tutor can help students to appreciate the broader picture beyond the actual subject.

However much depends upon the tutor. Some believe in focusing intensively on the topic being taught with the sole aim of getting through exams. Others act more like mentors. They encouraging curiosity, cultural awareness, and critical thinking. The latter are the ones who really help build cultural capital.

Maybe your question is genuine, but I’d say it sounds a little naive. Working in a state school there is no “ level playing field”. Some children start school never having seen a book , been on trips out , handled money etc. Throughout school years the differentials are enormous and grow wider - parents that want the best for their children supporting them with homework, buying books/ taking them on trips to enrich understanding of various projects ( a parent taking her child to pompeii specifically linked to curriculum comes to mind!) , supporting music lessons and other activities and interests outside school ( gym, swimming, scouts, ATC, dance etc. some of which add shoe in points for uni). Others can barely provide a comfortable sleeping space and nutrition for their child through poverty and/ or lack of opportunities. Tutoring is really neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things , and as others have said , why would you not provide the best for your child if you can? If you truly feel guilty about the inequity , whenever and if ever you can donate a small amount extra to the school , where it will go to resources to support the less fortunate families so they can join school trips etc.

Nothing wrong with a tutor to help your daughter along. I'd ban private schools.
You are literally buying privilege.

So is tutoring. What about people who need it but can’t afford it?

Exactly. This is where it all falls down. Everyone starts saying well I need to do the best for my child and if it means paying for a tutor that’s fine. But paying for private schools is somehow wrong? I used to be totally against private schooling as I thought it was building in privilege at too young an age and all children should be given more or less the same educational opportunities. Obviously you can’t legislate for the fact that home circumstances may differ but as far as schooling goes you could at least try to make it more or less equal for the vast majority.

Tony Blair and “equality of opportunity”.

However, I’ve changed my mind over the years as I’ve seen various politicians twist in the wind about how their child is different and needs x or y school and the “sharp-elbowed middle classes” throwing money at the situation in a different way through moving house, tutoring etc.

I’ve come to see that the majority of parents will do whatever they think is best for their child, regardless of the opportunities or otherwise, for other people’s children.

in such a society I now fail to see why private schooling is inherently wrong.

So is tutoring then, or any other different or additional type of activity classed as education outside of a state provided one. You know horse riding lessons are exempt right? Or skiing lessons?

I’m the same

That’s not what the poster said. They said that, if they are deemed by the Government to be in a group that is required to pay higher taxes, then they are okay about that obligation. Very different from someone volunteering to pay more tax than they are asked to as an individual. Disingenuous when posters claim not to understand the difference.

I’m still waiting for a definition of this slippery concept privilege. Only one poster has provided one so far, yet so many posters here are bandying it around as if it had a fixed clear meaning.

The scolding on this thread for people who dare buy privilege is interesting!

One poster upthread wrote I’m opposed to private education….but it’s different when it’s your own.

Hard to disagree with this. 6 pages in and I don’t think I’ve seen a good argument as to why this isn’t true.

To be fair to the OP though, they were being self-critical from the outset.

Are you actually serious?
This is the problem with a government peddling misinformation and slogans instead of facts

I'm in a snarky and sarcastic mood today, so buckle up.

I've been seeing a lot of harsh and unfair criticism aimed at parents who choose private education for their children. I think it's time for parents of private school students to stop paying taxes for state schools. They make up only a small percentage of parents in this country, so why should they keep being financially penalized for a service they don't use, possibly because it failed them in the past? Parents of state school students, who account for over 90% of the population, should be the ones funding it entirely. Could it be that state school parents feel a strong sense of entitlement to other people's money? Isn't this also a sign of privilege?

As I mentioned earlier, my children went to a prep school before transitioning to a state secondary. I pay for private tutoring to address the weaknesses of the state system, and hopefully, my children will achieve good grades, making the state school feel proud of itself. I'm doing my part to make the state look good.

Horse riding and skiing lessons are only exempt if it is provided by a sole trader whose revenue is below 90k PA. If the lessons are being provided by a company, then VAT is payable, just like private education.