I was fired for Gross Misconduct today.

[HoldingOnatoday]

Just need to talk to someone outside of my family really. It’s been a tough time recently, lost my mum and then I got Pneumonia and ended up in intensive care for six weeks.

I returned to work on Friday and had an investigation meeting where I was accused of submitting fraudulent expense mileage claims. I disputed some which were left on an agree to disagrees. Some id accidentally left in, where I’d been to visit clients homes, the clients had cancelled and I’d forgot to remove the mileage. Its auto done for us but alas I should’ve manually removed them. I accept responsibility and this is on me.

I’ve put in £10,000 (I do a lot of driving/stay in hotels) worth of expenses in the last year and £900 was found to be fraud. These were the cancelled ones I’d not deleted. They’re going to contact the police and I’m not sure if anything will come to it. It was done more job negligence (I’ve not been up to par) than maliciously. I’ve been scattered brained, driving 7 hours a day for work often and running on empty.

The thing is I’m good at my job, I’m a good person I’d like to think. But I’m so broken by this, I’ve finally got a good credit rating, which will now be damaged by mortgage repayments and bills being missed. I’m also scared at the prospect of going to prison/declaring this to future employers. I have offered to pay back and this was rejected.

Im not looking for Sympathy, just for a way forward because I really feel like ending it all today. I’ve applied for Christmas temp work today but not sure if anything will come from it.

You won’t go to prison. Don’t worry about that- I’d imagine the police will point out the costs of pressing charges and bringing a case to court. If they don’t, the company legal advisor will. You made a genuine mistake under extenuating circumstances; I would tell the truth in any future interviews. The system sounds rubbish and your manager should have checked - he wasn’t doing his job.

If she's only been there 17 months I don't think she could take it to a tribunal for those reasons, but my guess is that it's potential discrimination under the equality act if she's been unwell enough for hospitalisation and still on oxygen - sounds potentially like an ongoing disability.

Also if not gross misconduct they can still fire for any reason within the first 2 years, but need to shell out for notice / pay in lieu of notice.

I think we do know he isn’t - if he were facing any disciplinary over this, he would not have been allowed to chair OP’s investigation meeting.

I have total sympathy for you , but cancelled expenses obviously cannot be claimed for and if you do claim it's fraud . My advice to you is to contact your union and state your case

Interesting thread. A family member has just gone through an independent investigation too and what the investigator claimed the business was looking for, nothing was ever mentioned of at the formal interview, they brought up something else.

their boss also signed off on the ''thing'' before and after the event. it appears he has faced no consequences of failing to note a procedural failure. Other Employees were interviewed, which to our mind, was a witch hunt when a financial audit would have sufficed.

Their business admitted systems were at fault and procedures unclear, thus an error, so where you say your work system would remove a cancelling client, but not all the time, is something that should be looked into as to why the system failed. Should you have been expected to double check the employers system etc.

I would urge you to contact and visit an employment specialist lawyer. If it's likely your employment has been terminated, you need to clear the ''findings'' you engaged in fraud because it will come back to bite you in future job applications.

Hi OP,
It's my understanding that to be guilty of theft there has to be intent. I think your employer/the police would have to prove intent unless you admit guilt (which you shouldn't as there was no intent) . You need to maintain your innocence - yes you were overpaid but be clear that this was a failure of the system and there was no intent to benefit from mileage that you hadn't done.

I think you should push back and try to get a settlement from them (cash).

The facts in your favour:
Their poorly designed system claimed the money for cancelled visits - not you.
You had no intent to benefit from excess mileage.
There was a system in place to detect incorrect or fraudulent claims - why didn't this work? That again is an organisational failure - or possibly deliberate to get you in trouble (re whistle blowing grudge).
Someone should not be treated less favourably for whistle blowing - that is the law. So with that in mind were other people audited? If not why not? If they were audited what action was taken against them for any overclaims? Why was the person that you had whistle blown against allowed to investigate you and discipline you - there is a clear conflict of interest there.

Speak to acas to support you.
Let your organisation know that you will be looking for a settlement for all of the above plus distress and damage to your reputation. Ask them if they would like to discuss settling out of court. Discuss these ideas with ACAS and see what they suggest.

Deleted as duplicate post

If the OP has been put under the microscope because she was a whistle-blower (e.g. audited when no one else was audited) that is illegal.

If the police do attend, you must advise them that all of your mileage was approved by your manager , you hadn’t realised you were claiming for cancelled mileage as it’s on a auto approval spreadsheet and you believe that you weren’t playing due diligence due to your poor mental health and illness.

Also state as soon as you were made aware you offered to pay it back in full, however the company refused stating they were contacting the police for fraud and theft.

Because your manager approved all of your mileage, I personally don’t think they have a leg to stand on and it’s more of a civil matter now.

I think they are treating you terribly OP. They should be supporting you at a time like this with everything you have going on. I would go to a Union or some sort of employment tribunal people about it. I also think they should be supporting you through this time and your line manager should know what is going on with you. I hope you are feeling OK today. I wouldn't want to work for that pack of bastards any way after this. Take some time to restock. Xxxxxx

This is confusing. You say you had 'been to visit clients' homes' but that the clients had cancelled. So you made wasted journeys?

That cannot be seen as fraud, just disorganisation but having wasted one trip and incurred real costs, surely, you'd go through the other appointments carefully and not rack up a massive bill and a lot of wasted time and bill it to the company.

Fraud would be if you put them in but never went anywhere. Can you prove you went to these places even if it was a futile trip? There are many ways to prove it.

This is totally true and how my dh’s former company managed to get rid of his former boss (VP), who was very good at his job. It’s just the new CEO didn’t like him. He fought it and managed a good settlement.

As for your situation op, this isn’t about your expenses, it’s about your illness and not wanting to pay you until you’re well. I get it’s a hell of a lot of money to have accidentally claimed. However, the system is awful, your boss is potentially partly to blame and you were overworked.

I would get a decent employment lawyer. I understand that costs. However, you’re very very likely going to recoup that money and a lot more in a settlement with the company. Someone mentioned getting a subject access request. I would also do this.

It sounds as though they’re a pretty awful company to work for.

Honestly I work in HR and the police will do nothing. They'll consider it a civil rather than a criminal matter. It's £900 and you've offered to pay it back, nothing will come of it in that regard.

OP: you really need to get a lawyer. Best of luck (and get a lawyer!)

I think number 4 is particularly problematic!

@HoldingOnatoday how are you this morning?

You've had some good advice but may I add please photograph any company property that may be being collected (car, computer, phone). You don't want this shower of a company docking your severance pay.
There's a huge amount of dishonest companies out there.
I'm a CEO retired and no one goes after an employee for £900. As I previously said it's a stitch up.

My last boss stole £1.5m and his boss many millions from investors. One walked! I got fired for whistle blowing but I've never regretted it. Bunch of crooks.
Please talk to ACAS this morning and the law centre if you have one.
And driving 7 hours a day on top of your work is skating close to the wind on maximum allowed journey times. Even lorry drivers are limited.

Chin up and get organised (angry too if that's your style). You made a mistake, don't let it define you. Fwiw I'd employ you.

Sorry you have been unwell. As others have said it is likely they have been looking for a excuse/ reason to get rid of you. Threatening you with the police is all part of the ploy. Of course the police will not be interested, over claiming expenses would be a civil matter. They will probably make a whole show of dropping the threat of the police if you leave quietly. I previously claimed expenses and can understand how your mistake happened. If it were me I would be discussing the situation with someone who had legal knowledge.
Good luck.

I work in HR and this does sound iffy from their side, especially going straight to GM and yet the system and the manager also are involved in the process of approving expenses. Plus your circumstances. To be blunt it sounds like they’re using this to get rid of you. From my 20 years in HR this wouldn’t be a police matter at all, they can recoup it from your pay and the fact they aren’t also suggests something is off.

This would be definitelt be the type of thing my manager would do to get rid of someine.

Set you up to make a mistake, then fire you for making the mistake.

Its called "managing people out".

There are some pricks of managers out there

I used to work at a company that was previously government owned / privatised. A colleague told me a story about somebody being caught at a car boot sale selling company property from the storeroom.

The person kept their job, but there was a staff meeting to remind people not to steal and sell company property! My colleague asked if there was anything that you could actually be sacked for. The manager thought for a few minutes and said 'fiddling expenses and overtime'.

Totally agree.

I think I know what company you are referring to...does it begin with B?

No.

I'm sorry OP that you're going through this. On an unrelated topic, I'm surprised that one member of staff can have £10,000 worth of expenses. Seems very high.

Could it be that an audit was done and your expense history triggered a warning as it was very different from your colleagues?

It's also expected that one goes through their expenses before they are submitted. I know you have a lot going on, but could it be that this was a pattern rather than a one-off? I don't mean to sound insensitive but as someone who deals with these at work, I have seen people who take the mickey and it can be quite infuriating.