I was fired for Gross Misconduct today.

[HoldingOnatoday]

Just need to talk to someone outside of my family really. It’s been a tough time recently, lost my mum and then I got Pneumonia and ended up in intensive care for six weeks.

I returned to work on Friday and had an investigation meeting where I was accused of submitting fraudulent expense mileage claims. I disputed some which were left on an agree to disagrees. Some id accidentally left in, where I’d been to visit clients homes, the clients had cancelled and I’d forgot to remove the mileage. Its auto done for us but alas I should’ve manually removed them. I accept responsibility and this is on me.

I’ve put in £10,000 (I do a lot of driving/stay in hotels) worth of expenses in the last year and £900 was found to be fraud. These were the cancelled ones I’d not deleted. They’re going to contact the police and I’m not sure if anything will come to it. It was done more job negligence (I’ve not been up to par) than maliciously. I’ve been scattered brained, driving 7 hours a day for work often and running on empty.

The thing is I’m good at my job, I’m a good person I’d like to think. But I’m so broken by this, I’ve finally got a good credit rating, which will now be damaged by mortgage repayments and bills being missed. I’m also scared at the prospect of going to prison/declaring this to future employers. I have offered to pay back and this was rejected.

Im not looking for Sympathy, just for a way forward because I really feel like ending it all today. I’ve applied for Christmas temp work today but not sure if anything will come from it.

Very strong agree with @GameOfJones and @MiceAsPie there is almost no change of the police being interested. They will be polite to your employer but extremely unlikely to pursue it. I was responsible for 7000 people. We had a many, much more, serious cases than this that never got anywhere with the police.

They do sound like they want to part ways. If that suits you, take advice then talk about settlement. Frame it as “You have acted unreasonably.To avoid a tribunal and negative press let’s find an elegant solution”

Sorry to hear about your being unwell.

Out of interest, how did they come to investigate this at your work? Was it an audit or something?

They never said, and I don’t even know if anyone else had anything brought up. It was just delivered the news within an hour of my return and I sort of took it on board. Weirdly enough my manager who had approved the expenses was the one chairing in the investigating meeting and the same person I’d whistleblown about😬. As I’ve said, I’ve never had anything brought to my attention for the past 17 months and it wasn’t malicious, but I get it.

There’s absolutely no way you’re going to prison for this.Don't stress for a second about it.I honestly doubt they’ll even contact the police, it might be they were trying to scare you.

I get that you should’ve updated the mileage, but their system isn’t exactly reliable. It depends on people manually doing things that are easy to miss, especially when you’re under pressure. Yes, you didn’t double-check, but neither did they. The process itself is flawed. Mistakes happen, and if yours was genuine, they should’ve just given you the chance to pay the money back with a warning. Calling it “gross misconduct” feels way over the top.

I believe they digged, hoping to find something because of your prior health situation and this is what they found.
I know you’re tired and don’t feel like fighting this, but you have to. You might still be able to leave on completely different terms.

Call ACAS asap, they’ll walk you through what to do next.
Sorry you are going through a rough path but you will recover from this. Call Samaritans as well, if you need to. Please look after yourself and take care ❤️

This sounds mega red-flag.

I hope you find the strength in you to fight this because I 100% think this sounds like a set up.

This too shall pass. It sounds like you’re absolutely run down and exhausted. You’ll be in a better place soon, regain your strength, and a Xmas temp job will be a great way to get a new reference too ready for the new year. Take what ever role you can to get round the reference in the short term to put you back on track.

It is likely a set up. But that doesn’t mean you should power into Devine retribution. Being a set up doesn’t mean you have any more chance at tribunal or negotiating with them.

You should have been given notice of the appeal process. Then it would at least be reviewed by someone else, even if the outcome is the same. Was Friday’s meeting with same people? Do you think there were others’ expenses reviewed as part of a general audit? Don’t rush back to working again, you should have taken more time off to recover from your illness.

That all sounds so exhausting.

I know you said you do not want to launch a legal case, but I do think getting some free legal advice might reassure you that you will not go to prison. It might also help to feel you have someone on your side.

https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals/find-legal-advice-clinic-near-you List all free legal advice clinics.

not sure where you are based but I used https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice/individuals/poplaw-legal-advice-clinic

make sure you find one that focuses on employment. I have used them in the past. They have a junior lawyer supported by a more experienced one, I found them to be BRILLIANT. They wrote letters, did everything on my behalf and gave me helpful, legally practical advice. I felt supported. Not sure how it works with the online ones but I did face to face which I found to be thorough.

good luck with whatever you did. I obviously dont know but would be surprised if you went to prison, prisons are full - £900 in the grand scheme of things with your mitigating circumstances seems unlikely. When I was younger I had a trash boyfriend that purposely stole from work. He got
caught, it went to court and he had community service.

you will be ok x

I have every sympathy for you - please hang in there.

In terms of the police - please try not to stress. If your employer does go ahead and report you and you are called for a voluntary interview/or arrested ask for the duty solicitor (free). Ask him/her if you can reply to all questions with ‘no comment’, then ask for your interview tape and respond to each question and submit a signed statement afterwards.

Make an appointment to see your GP asap to get it on record that this was not deliberate, you were ill etc and are having suicidal thoughts.

Also, as you have no job and if you do not have much savings, you will be entitled to Legal Aid. If the duty solicitor is any good, you might think about instructing him/her.

Come back and let us know how you get on.

Because it was not fraud, it was a mistake.
In addition, the company does not have a robust system in place to avoid this type of mistakes.
I would be interested to know if other employees were investigated (and the findings)or if they singled OP out what can be considered discrimination.
In my opinion (although I am not an expert) there are some grounds for a tribunal to rule this as "unfair dismissal".
The company wouldn't want to risk it. They might offer a resignation, possibly with some settlement.

This sounds like a prime case for an unfair dismissal claim! They obviously wanted to make your position untenable and the way they did with this was through the “expenses audit”. They wouldn’t stand a chance in court for various reasons:

1. Your manager hadn’t seen the errors before submitting the claim either,
2. They suddenly have someone coming back from maternity leave and not enough work for everyone (not your problem) but they need to offload staff accordingly,
3. The amount of stress and extra work they’ve been putting on you with all the extra miles etc.
4. The fact that the manager you’ve whistle blown was allowed to run this meeting,
5. You are allowed a representative with you regardless of the meeting. How can it be informal when they are raising a grievance against you?
6. They’ve done this within an hour of your return to work after being so poorly,
7. I’m assuming you haven’t had other warnings for things during your employment?
8. Be interesting to know if everyone was audited. They’d have to disclose this! It goes to prove if they were looking for a way to get you out

I don’t think they’ve got a leg to stand on! I know you said you don’t want to make a claim but please speak to a solicitor and see what they say. The reason these companies do this kind of thing is because nobody ever stands up to them.

Any pay out as a result of a case could help you keep a roof over your head, plus they wouldn’t be able to give you a negative reference so you’re much more likely to be able to find new employment.

Your not a bad person, most of us are burnt out, struggling and trying to survive, we all make mistakes, you've been through a lot and need time to heal.

This @HoldingOnatoday

We have calls to senior legal counsel almost weekly from HR regarding staffing issues and the legalities of getting rid of problematic employees. It really isn't as easy as you make out.

Oh I was beyond burnt out. I burst into tears in February in my 1-2-1 and told my manager I was barely holding it together and he didn’t really say anything.

They’re sales people. It’s numbers or nothing and sickness especially MH is seen as a weakness. It’s sad but it’s true.

when I told him my mum had cancer, he said oh well I’ve known abc people who’ve had cancer and have been fine. Don’t worry so much.

im gutted and sad and tired and scared but mostly tonight I’m relieved I never have to go back.

Are you with a union? Or is it worth asking an employment solicitor for advice?

I think you’re mixing up what your specific company is willing to do to sack people with what you can do in general.

you can sack people for… anything. The risk you take is that they take you to tribunal. The majority of tribunal awards are capped, and it’s a long process that costs the employee. It’s also immensely stressful

youve had your calls because your company is very risk adverse.

on the other hand, I’ve been in calls where people have been sacked because they’ll risk paying the tribunal, if it comes. Often it’s worth it to get rid of someone, particularly someone on a high salary.

I hope you are reading this and take the advice;

The ONLY way to deal with this is to come out fighting, mainly as they have set their stall out to try to frighten you. And have clearly succeeded.

I would highly doubt the police would even turn up for this kind of accusation. You will definitely not be arrested.

@HoldingOnatoday is right - you need to threaten them with a tribunal. They have not followed the right procedures here.

You will get money out of this, you need to start with a simple letter appealing the misconduct. Template here https://www.acas.org.uk/disciplinary-grievance-appeal-letter-templates/disciplinary-appeal-letter-template

the grounds are as follows;

The fault is a system error, assigning mileage payments automatically when they are not due.
You were under stress with long hours travelling and were unable to fully check their system errors
The second line of checking also failed as the signing manager did not notice the errors, this was not your fault.
They have made an error using the signing manager to dismiss you as it needs to be another staff member (I need to read back to check if this was the case)
They failed to take into account you were seriously ill with the after effects of Pneumonia and took you into a disciplinary
They failed to give you sufficient notice to find a companion to accompany you to the meeting.
They failed to take into account that you had offered to repay the sum as it was a genuine error.
As a whistle blower you are protected (- The Manager who did the disciplinary cannot be the one who you reported, it's pretty much disciplinary 101 - an absolute no no.)

Then the final sentence; "This was a genuine error on my part, however, if you believe this is a matter for the Police, I would be happy for them to attend the appeal meeting and deal with the matter as they see fit"

If you want me to write the letter, I can, just PM me. Note - not a lawyer, but I do know a bit about tribunals... YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT....

While writing this @Speckly has written practically the same!

9.Not recognising and supporting mental health issues
10.Not supporting a member of staff when a difficulty is addressed with their manger or offering strategies

Just another 2 things to add to my list above!

I know today is tough my lovely but tomorrow get up and fight the bastards! Don’t let them do this to you.

We are quite risk averse so that is true. It's H.E.

ha ha I’m surprised. It was in HE i saw the worst, riskiest behaviour , including the above - “as long as the settlement agreement is less than the tribunal cap of £90k we’ll sign. Otherwise just sack them”

ETA- HE is also unionised, a sales environment is very unlikely to be!

OP has said she was originally on a permanent contract which then changed to maternity cover and the person on mat leave has returned but has little to do, so this really sounds like a stitch-up.