Page 11 | I was fired for Gross Misconduct today.

HoldingOnatoday · 2025-10-13T12:57:58+00:00

Just need to talk to someone outside of my family really. It’s been a tough time recently, lost my mum and then I got Pneumonia and ended up in intensive care for six weeks. I returned to work on Friday and had an investigation meeting where I was accused of submitting fraudulent expense mileage claims. I disputed some which were left on an agree to disagrees. Some id accidentally left in, where I’d been to visit clients homes, the clients had cancelled and I’d forgot to remove the mileage. Its auto done for us but alas I should’ve manually removed them. I accept responsibility and this is on me. I’ve put in £10,000 (I do a lot of driving/stay in hotels) worth of expenses in the last year and £900 was found to be fraud. These were the cancelled ones I’d not deleted. They’re going to contact the police and I’m not sure if anything will come to it. It was done more job negligence (I’ve not been up to par) than maliciously. I’ve been scattered brained, driving 7 hours a day for work often and running on empty. The thing is I’m good at my job, I’m a good person I’d like to think. But I’m so broken by this, I’ve finally got a good credit rating, which will now be damaged by mortgage repayments and bills being missed. I’m also scared at the prospect of going to prison/declaring this to future employers. I have offered to pay back and this was rejected. Im not looking for Sympathy, just for a way forward because I really feel like ending it all today. I’ve applied for Christmas temp work today but not sure if anything will come from it.

Comtesse · 13/10/2025 20:18

Etoile41 · 13/10/2025 20:13

You may not feel up to fighting the dismissal but from what you have said it seems that you would have grounds to file for unfair dismissal. It seems grossly unfair to call you into a disciplinary meeting just after you have been out and in hospital for a few weeks without the opportunity to have someone with you. A formal meeting just a couple of days later, on a Sunday, with only 24 hours notice, is also unfair as you had no real chance to take someone with you.

How long have you been working for the company? Are you a member of a union that could assist you?

You may not want to return to the company but you should fight to leave with your head held high and not under a cloud of gross misconduct for a matter that they have not investigated properly as they didn't give you a proper chance to respond to the allegations.

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Good post - they have likely made all sorts of errors. You might not get your job back but there could be a payout or better reference situation. It is HARD to dismiss an employee - the processes are there to protect you.

DominosForDinner · 13/10/2025 20:19

Op this is a horrid situation but you must object and cal Acas because you don’t deserve to have gross misconduct on your file. A system that inserts mileage that you have to manually delete is asking for problems - it would only be fraud if your manager questioned it and you confirmed “oh yea I drove to Birmingham that day”. You made a mistake; your manager compounded the mistake; you should have the £900 deducted from your payslips and a warning and someone in the organisation should be sorting out this daft mileage system - I guarantee you won’t be the only one making this mistake! It’s just yours is bigger in £££ because you were driving such long distances.

You must fight this as gross misconduct for expenses fraud is NOT a reference you want following you around.

Cartwrightandson · 13/10/2025 20:22

Looks more like they wanted you gone.

Whyherewego · 13/10/2025 20:23

GameOfJones · 13/10/2025 18:53

OP, what you could do is say that you wish to appeal the decision. They should provide you with a letter that includes information on who to appeal to. Often it is by email and within five days, so you have to move quickly. You don't need to give a lot of information, just state the grounds you are appealing on. So a quick email will do it and should then trigger a further internal investigation. What that means is that another member of HR and a senior manager that haven't been involved in the case up to this point have to review all of the information. It costs you nothing to do but does mean that more pairs of eyes have to scrutinise everything.

I am not saying that this will change the outcome. As I said before I can see why they have reached this decision given the number of discrepancies and the fact it's been happening for a long time. But I think it's worth you appealing if you can face it.

I'd second this. You may be able to query why it took so long to flag this up rather than the error being highlighted promptly for you to correct.
Also scrutinise the policies, they need to follow it to the letter. They should send this to you along with the appeal details.

CantHoldMeDown · 13/10/2025 20:36

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CantHoldMeDown · 13/10/2025 20:37

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Tapsthemic · 13/10/2025 20:40

OP I’m so sorry this is happening - it all seems very fishy. If you can speak to a union rep or Citizen’s Advice Bureau, then I would. Sending you strength xx

MousseMousse · 13/10/2025 20:41

100% fighting it isn't about getting your job back @HoldingOnatoday , it's about leaving with your head held high - and given how it looks like they've screwed you here, you could be in line for a settlement which will tide you over until you get another job.
A settlement must also state that they have to give you a good reference and protects you from any tax implications.

I know how ill you, how physically & mentally exhausted but you really must find a little bit of strength within you to hand this over to a lawyer

Comtesse · 13/10/2025 20:42

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How about the whistle blowing notification then? That’s hardly straight forward work for the trainee….

Whatsthatsheila · 13/10/2025 20:44

HoldingOnatoday · 13/10/2025 16:23

The audit was done during my six weeks off. I got out of hospital last Monday, and returned to work on Friday on which was to be a planned phased return of 4 hours per day. I was invited to the meeting within one hour of returning on Friday and told what they’d found. They said I couldn’t have representation as it was informal. I was then invited again on Sunday, for today with 24 hours notice which I didn’t take representation to as I couldn’t bear to tell anyone stupidly. I was then told I was being immediately dismissed on the grounds of Gross misconduct for fraud and the police were being contacted. I then reinterated the amount was £900, they said yes. I offered to pay it back or have it taken from my final wage and they declined this.

A few strange things did happen up to this happening though. When I first got the job, 17 months ago, it was a permanent position. I then suddenly was told I’d be covering the area of someone on maternity leave hence the long drives, hotel stays etc. I checked my contract, permanent not maternity cover.

Recently, the lady who I was covering has returned to work and they barely had any work for me to do. So that’s been another thing then obviously my time off. I’m not disregarding the expense claims, I’d like to think if my colleagues were audited they’d also be some due to the nature of the system but I don’t know. I’d also whistleblown about someone on the team doing something against safeguarding and never received a response. This person had been there 13 years and was well loved.

im taking time today to take it all in. Not spiral. To maybe just breathe a little. I’ve put in a claim for UC, applied for Christmas jobs. I’ll give myself til the new year and try and begin again.

if this is a really genuine error (like if there’s no proof of this prior to your personal life going tits up) - then that to me shows its happened purely because of the stress you were under - and it’s a genuinely honest mistake. Particularly if there are other cancelled journeys that you have removed.

the fact that the mileage is auto calculated before the journeys taken and you haven’t deliberately entered these onto the system knowing they didn’t happen makes this more a “negligent” slap on the wrists be more careful in future thing- especially under the circumstances - It’s a big leap to go from that to accusing you of theft. Particularly if your record was exemplary prior to this.

The timing of this stinks -The day you return to work following 6 weeks in Intensive care??? Sounds to me like you’ve been stitched up like a bloody kipper

particularly if your line manager has oversight and could have cancelled them but didn’t - what’s happened to them? Are they in the shit? Or were they about to get a bollocking and you’ve ended up being the fall guy?

id get ACAS and your union (please have one) involved. Get this down a legal route because I think something fishy is going on

granted you’ll not wanna work for them but if you’ve been accused of fraud/theft and they are stating theyll bring in the police means you need to clear your name

remember that whistleblowing is protected under employment law so it sounds like they just wanted an excuse to get you out of contract for that and the mat cover returnee but without you going back at them with a claim for for unfair dismissal.

please please please tell me you have some documentation of the whistleblowing because I’ll bet your IT on their end has been suddenly wiped

CantHoldMeDown · 13/10/2025 20:50

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Charlenedickens · 13/10/2025 20:55

HoldingOnatoday · 13/10/2025 18:31

I’m not planning on putting any case forward against anyone. The other agree to disagree amount was £34. I just wanted to know if there was a likelihood (which I know nobody can tell me) if I’d go to prison or not or end up with a criminal record. I didn’t fight back or argue because I’m not fit enough truthfully and have accepted what is, and I’ve started applying for Christmas work. They’d threatened me with the police and I just wanted to know if anyone had any insight of what that process would look like. As I said, I’m not excusing my behaviour and have accepted dismissal and potential police action, but there was a lot going on that again had made me scatty in my admin (again no excuse) and my manager hadn’t noticed either.

I’ve had many jobs over the years and never had anything like this. I’ve never even had a disciplinary or warning.

Edited

Op you can’t be scatty over expenses. Many companies have zero tolerance, and with 17 months they could simply have said thanks but it’s not working out and let you go. So I’m afraid I am going to assume this really is about the 9 months of false claims,

the reason employers fire over this is because trust is broken with the employee. They have no way of knowing if this was deliberate fraud or you were completely incompetent due to circumstances, but then it begs the question how come you could do the rest of your job for those nine months,

id also assume other employees have not done this, I’ve some experience of this, and due to thr risk of legal action, they have to treat all employees the same who do this.

people are trying to help you, but I do not think you’ve anyway out of this, the issue is it was for nine months this happened. And you’d proven for the nine before you knew how to do it correctly. It wasn’t once or twice, it was nine months running, all you can do and should do, is try to negotiate a reference, get yourself well again, and hopefully find better employment.

Nayyercheekyfeckers · 13/10/2025 20:57

You absolutely will not go to prison for this. It's highly unlikely that they would report to the police and even less likely that it would ever go to court. Firstly they would have to prove intent to gain, which they would clearly struggle to. The amount is also fairly small, all things considered. They could potentially go to small claims, but it would cost them almost as much, if not more, if they were to prepare a case. Also you offered to pay it back. Presumably they owe you wages for holiday pay etc, in which case they will likely just deduct from that.

OneNewLeader · 13/10/2025 21:04

HoldingOnatoday · 13/10/2025 14:18

So basically our mileage counts automatically for all journeys recorded in our system. If a journey is cancelled, sometimes the system will automatically remove this, sometimes not and it’s up to the employee to check before submitting. It also goes to my boss who checks it over before submitting but he just submits anything it seems and doesn’t recheck. No word about him when I mentioned it other than I should’ve checked and it was my responsibility.

It was over nine months so not recently but that’s when trouble started really for me, mum got ill, I was trying to manage work and home and I expectations. Would tell my manager and he’d say oh it’ll quieten down soon. I was doing 6 hours a day driving to cover a larger area than normal so lots of things combined.

Im trying to take each moment as it comes. I’m still recovering (I’m on oxygen even at home). I’m more scared of going to prison or court than anything. I haven’t even cried yet as I feel exhausted and numb towards it all. I haven’t done this for financial gain even though if their eyes it’ll appear like that.

I could fight it but personally I’m so physically exhausted and mentally tired, I can’t imagine doing so. I’d never want to work for them again anyway after this.

Edited

Look after yourself first, contact GP, then Union/ACAS in that order. You may not feel well enough to appeal, but I think you should. A system that sometimes does something and sometimes doesn’t is a flawed one. You may have a case.

Take care of yourself, heal but also fight (if you can).

Frazzled83 · 13/10/2025 21:15

MargaretThursday · 13/10/2025 18:24

I think you need to be more realistic than many of the sympathetic answers you have here.

No, I don't think you will, nor should go to prison for this.
But I don't think it's anything like as clearshot as you will win a fight against them.

But what you've written here, if I was investigating, would definitely raise alarm bells.
I've been in a situation with someone committing fraud, not to the extent you have, and everything had an answer which seemed reasonable for each individual incident. Just the number of "accidents" was a little bit hard to believe, and I think you'll be in that situation.
"I was distracted", "I meant to let them know", "It was an accident", "of course I'll pay what I can back", "I've had a terrible time recently..." and it sounded a terrible misfortune... until an email was found which made it clear that it was deliberate and further investigation showed that it had gone back years.

The two things that I noticed from your Op is:
I disputed some which were left on an agree to disagrees ; lots of people think the 9% was bad. There was more. How much more? If you're talking about another £100, then that's not that bad. If you're talking about another £900 then that's worse if it's more than that, then I think you are looking in bad waters.
And on what grounds are you disagreeing? That you did the miles, or that you didn't claim them? Because you haven't left it as they agree you didn't fraudulently claim: you've left it as they still think you did; you say you didn't. So their investigation will be taking those into consideration, and looking at those.

The other thing is:
It’s been a tough time recently, lost my mum and then I got Pneumonia and ended up in intensive care for six weeks
That's only really going to wash as an excuse if all, or pretty much all, the events were after this. If that is the case, then you'll probably have a reasonable case for asking them to take this into consideration; but if you are still on O2, so it sounds like most were before, then it looks like an excuse.

Yes, I would phone ACAS, and maybe a solicitor. But you need to be honest with them.
Are they going to find, if they investigate, more claims dating back years?
Why do some of the claims get automatically cancelled, and others don't? Is it something you should have done?
And how much total are they saying you claimed fraudulently?
What's your defence for the ones you disagree about?
Are there likely to be others in the same situation?
Have you ever had a similar accusation before, or been caught out on expenses?

If you're not honest with them, then they can't give you the advice you need and then you may be barking up the wrong tree, which is unlikely to help your case.

Really? Those are the two things you noticed? Not that this is a person on the edge who has clearly made a mistake at a time in their life where I challenge anyone to be on the ball? You can still be direct without being unkind y’know?

OP - I can totally see how you’d have made such a cock up. I imagine this was the last thing on your mind. I would say the ‘accidental’ permanent contract and whistleblowing are not insignificant here. What I know about whistleblowers is they don’t do it for the glory. It’s a hard and lonely thing to do and demonstrates a character that isn’t fitting with fraud. I know you’re not well but I urge you to get some legal advice. They’re counting on you being too ill and feeling too ashamed to fight them - not for your job back, but to help you walk away with your head high. I’m angry for you! Please talk to people and don’t hold all of this in xx

Youdontseehow · 13/10/2025 21:16

HRTFT but agree with a previous post that I did read that they might be trying to get rid of you.

The way your expenses are submitted sounds shoddy - I’ve had several jobs where I had to claim expenses/mileage but no way would the system accept mileage/expensed before the journey/event had taken place. So if you were able to do that, then the system is flawed in itself.

Do you have access to a copy of your company disciplinary policy? It should be readily available - if it’s not, then that is also something that your union rep (if you have one) can pick up on.

I’m but a lawyer but I can’t see any criminal proceedings over this amount when you’ve been working in extremely challenging circumstances- good luck 💐

DiscoBob · 13/10/2025 21:17

There is no way on earth you're going to prison or even get a conviction.

Your workplace's systems for recording such things are flawed, as is the management structure. That is not a police matter and frankly if they turn up hold your head up high as you have not intentionally stolen money.

Surely even if there was one it would be a civil case as it's to do with their own internal systems, not you breaking into their finances software and changing, diverting payments or faking invoices.

You'll get a new better job. Or maybe you're not well enough and need ESA or PIP.

Either way please don't feel bad. You did not intentionally do anything wrong at all. It wasn't gross misconduct. It was an oversight by you and the employer.

ZaraCC · 13/10/2025 21:17

ÒP, things seem bad now but please take a step back. Life is long and you will over this and come out the other end. Everything else aside, a job is just a job - you will get another one and you will rebuild your career - you will look back on this as a blip. Please try to see the bigger picture - whatever is most important to you in life, focus on that.

Frazzled83 · 13/10/2025 21:18

Charlenedickens · 13/10/2025 20:55

Op you can’t be scatty over expenses. Many companies have zero tolerance, and with 17 months they could simply have said thanks but it’s not working out and let you go. So I’m afraid I am going to assume this really is about the 9 months of false claims,

the reason employers fire over this is because trust is broken with the employee. They have no way of knowing if this was deliberate fraud or you were completely incompetent due to circumstances, but then it begs the question how come you could do the rest of your job for those nine months,

id also assume other employees have not done this, I’ve some experience of this, and due to thr risk of legal action, they have to treat all employees the same who do this.

people are trying to help you, but I do not think you’ve anyway out of this, the issue is it was for nine months this happened. And you’d proven for the nine before you knew how to do it correctly. It wasn’t once or twice, it was nine months running, all you can do and should do, is try to negotiate a reference, get yourself well again, and hopefully find better employment.

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Companies who ignore whistleblowers about something as serious as safeguarding are absolutely not doing everything ‘by the book’ - this seems very convenient to me.

berightorbehappy · 13/10/2025 21:28

I’m sorry this happened and l hope you can hold onto the fact that mistakes are just that ! I echo what everyone says …seek advice from union or someone in employment law . Did your employers know you were going through a hard time ? What was their duty of care like ? Didn’t anyone else check or notice the discrepancies as the process should highlight cancelled appointments and not allow claims against that date . Obviously it’s your responsibility at the end of the day so can you offer to pay them back somehow and request they let you resign ? it’s not the end of world if this is a final decision ...you won’t be the first or last person to mess up in a job. This will be behind you at some point ..so please seek help if you feel hopeless or overwhelmed . Nothing like this is worth giving up for ! Good luck x

mullers1977 · 13/10/2025 21:32

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 13/10/2025 14:10

"Some id accidentally left in, where I’d been to visit clients homes, the clients had cancelled and I’d forgot to remove the mileage. Its auto done for us but alas I should’ve manually removed them. I accept responsibility and this is on me."

I don't understand this part, @HoldingOnatoday.

Do you mean that you drove to visit the clients in their homes because you did not know that they had cancelled?

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to claim for mileage in this situation unless you were somehow at fault.

I thought the same - why should she be out of pocket x

Bbutton · 13/10/2025 21:34

Frazzled83 · 13/10/2025 21:18

Companies who ignore whistleblowers about something as serious as safeguarding are absolutely not doing everything ‘by the book’ - this seems very convenient to me.

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This! The trust I work for (NHS) has literally let high ups walk away with things with a slap on the wrist which others would have been dismissed for. They have recently changed the process of their expenses claims due to people taking the absolute piss (we are talking booking huge amounts of personal travel) and these people still walk the floors with their jobs. The process for booking travel previously was extremely flawed. The trust is in such bad debt it cant recruit new staff but it likes to brush issues like this under the carpet for fear of it getting out to local press because the public know it's in a bad way.

Isitreallythough · 13/10/2025 21:35

Hang in there OP. I hope you do contact your union/ACAS and get some good advice. These seem very serious consequences for a case of not checking when you should have. I hope you can leave in a better position than you’ve anticipated.
You can get through this and look back on it from a better place in your life!

XWKD · 13/10/2025 21:36

You won't go to prison for this.

Charlenedickens · 13/10/2025 21:40

mullers1977 · 13/10/2025 21:32

I thought the same - why should she be out of pocket x

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Please read the thread she’s already clarified. The clients cancelled and she didn’t go anywhere, she stayed home. And she then verified she’d went and sent the claim.