I was fired for Gross Misconduct today.

[HoldingOnatoday]

Just need to talk to someone outside of my family really. It’s been a tough time recently, lost my mum and then I got Pneumonia and ended up in intensive care for six weeks.

I returned to work on Friday and had an investigation meeting where I was accused of submitting fraudulent expense mileage claims. I disputed some which were left on an agree to disagrees. Some id accidentally left in, where I’d been to visit clients homes, the clients had cancelled and I’d forgot to remove the mileage. Its auto done for us but alas I should’ve manually removed them. I accept responsibility and this is on me.

I’ve put in £10,000 (I do a lot of driving/stay in hotels) worth of expenses in the last year and £900 was found to be fraud. These were the cancelled ones I’d not deleted. They’re going to contact the police and I’m not sure if anything will come to it. It was done more job negligence (I’ve not been up to par) than maliciously. I’ve been scattered brained, driving 7 hours a day for work often and running on empty.

The thing is I’m good at my job, I’m a good person I’d like to think. But I’m so broken by this, I’ve finally got a good credit rating, which will now be damaged by mortgage repayments and bills being missed. I’m also scared at the prospect of going to prison/declaring this to future employers. I have offered to pay back and this was rejected.

Im not looking for Sympathy, just for a way forward because I really feel like ending it all today. I’ve applied for Christmas temp work today but not sure if anything will come from it.

I agree with a previous poster that the threat to involve the police was simply to make you leave quietly without making a fuss. They wanted to get rid of you and they found a way. The process they followed does not seem fair or in keeping with my experience, as a union rep, of work place policies for sacking people.

You really should take some advice from a suitably qualified person to see what can be done to minimise the chance of this affecting your future employment prospects.

Please listen to this - and please call ACAS.

I know you don’t feel strong enough to fight but see it as seeking advice and support rather than starting a fight.

At the risk of sounding silly, Can you sleep on it,get some rest.

This is the world we live in, no kindness sadly.

It reads that you have had quite a lot of time off sick and they have found a reason to dismiss you. Ignoring that your boss should also have checked. So both of you made a mistake. You needed self care and you were overworked. I think you have a good case op to appeal etc.

It’s this. They wanted you gone.

Go get proper advice and fight this. Not for your job (you wouldn’t want to work for them now anyway) but this is a shitty thing to have on your record.

It’ll never get to court and I’d be shocked if the police were remotely interested. They’ve made that threat to scare you.

Really sorry OP. I doubt you will go to prison though, from seeing these cases in the past, people usually get a slap on the wrist, however getting a new job may be challenging.

It does annoy me as I know someone who is blatantly committing fraud in the NHS - they have been reported, the investigation is taking a very long time and the person is still in their role during investigation and getting paid (high up management) although it is unlikely once the investigation is completed they will keep their job. However, this is the same trust that re hired a man who got dismissed for watching pornography on his works PC, the same man was then able to climb to a management role, but is now in prison I believe for sex offences with minors.
I hope your health fully improves soon.

OP, you really do need to challenge this, and contact ACAS. The management team have not followed proper process with their meetings etc. you should have been given much more notice of the meetings and to arrange to be accompanied.

Sorry you’re going through this. Hopefully, they won’t prosecute (although it might stand you in better stead to discuss paying the money back if you haven’t already).

I hope everything turns out alright… xx

If you don’t wish to keep your job then you have nothing to lose by fighting fire with fire. I would try to negotiate ending your employment quietly and without notice but not for gross misconduct. And you won’t whistleblow on the incompetence of their mileage system, discrepancies between the job you agreed to do and what they actually had you doing and anything else you can think of.

Hello OP, we are really sorry to hear you are feeling this way.
We hope you don't mind, but when these threads are flagged up to us we usually add a link to our Mental Health resources. You can also go to the Samaritans Samaritans website or email them on [email protected]. Support from other Mumsnetters is great and we really hope you will be able to take some comfort from your fellow posters, but as other MNers will tell you, it's really a good idea to seek RL help and support as well.💐

Hi Op, they sound awful and people genuinely make mistakes. You should have been given a warning at least. I think you may grounds for a complaint as it doesn’t sound as if they have followed due process etc

inwoild call ACAS and you need to make it as difficult as possible for them. Basically you probably want to leave now but you want to resign not be dismissed so that is not on your record. The harder you make it for them, the more expensive it is for them and the more likely they will compromise ie let you resign and you can keep your employment record clean. If you manage make sure they sign a disclaimer where this will not form part of a reference to another company when you find another job.

best of luck op and I hope you recover soon.

If you get advice which says they you could make life difficult for them if appeal you can renegotiate to get them to accept a resignation rather than have gross misconduct as the reason your employment was terminated.

A friend had a similar issue with taking more annual leave than she was entitled to. It was a stupid amount more and she should have realised it. She was going through a lot at the time and it didn’t register until it flagged during an audit. She ended up saying she would take them to tribunal, raise a grievance etc as it was an oversight, her manager signed it off and there was no support during her extenuating circumstances. After initially scaring her and saying they would be referring her to NHS fraud etc, they agreed to let her resign and pay back the difference.

OP you will not go to prison or court for £900.it costs £1000 a week to keep a prisoner in custody.
I'm from a family of lawyers, my mum was a copper and I've been a prison visitor. It sounds like they bamboozled you today. Did you have anyone else with you? You are entitled to a witness. It's a breach of employment law not to follow correct procedures.
Check your contents insurance for legal cover and use it! Your boss has an obligation to cross check the figures, he's not without blame here.
ACAS can help.
I got fired in 2023. It was a big set up not to pay me notice, I was a big cheese. Lots of companies avoid paying if they can claim mis conduct. You've got holiday pay and benefits cash too. Do not roll over. This behaviour is all over LinkedIn. You're not alone.
Hold your head up high. You were stressed not a thief.
You're hardly Ronny Biggs. X

it sounds as though they haven't followed their own procedures. Check out the Employee Handbook with respect to what they should have done in terms of notice of meetings, representation and setting out the allegations. As you were off sick as well, this could be discrimination on the grounds of disability. I think they wanted rid of you and found a way to do it.

That’s bad advice, fraud / theft against an employer is a serious offence.

To be honest work place fraud looks like this more often than not. People are under stress; they make errors or become less vigilant; they get away with it, they look upon it as a little less causally policed than they realised. It becomes easier to do it again and again, convincing yourself it’s the same as that first innocent mistake.

im not claiming that’s what happened with your friend but these factors increase the risk of fraud massively.

The OP raised a whistlblowing concern that was ignored.

Read the OP's updates before proffering your honest opinion!

OP this is a story as old as time. When companies want to get rid of someone they always start with expenses and.because most expenses processes are imperfect they can usually find something amiss. They want you out and are banking on the fact that since you are still recovering from illness you are in no fit state to consult a solicitor and begin the necessary unfair dismissal case. They are cunts who deserve everything they get! Please, please, please contact ACAS tomorrow, explain how Ill you have been and ask for their help. Don't let these hateful bastards ruin your life or peace of mind. But in the meantime please ring the Samaritans and let them help you today. I am so
sorry for what they are putting you through when you are still obviously suffering from the aftermath of your illness.

I’m really surprised by this idea that whenever you want to sack someone you go to expenses. Most employees barely ever claim expenses! (And to confirm, as an FD I haven’t seen this happen)

I work in HR and this is a very extreme reaction. Also you should have had longer to get representation and be able to look at the evidence before your hearing. I don’t think the police are informed if under 5k so I don’t know why they’re saying that. It sounds like they are trying it on. I’d first call ACAS and appeal the decision.

You may not feel up to fighting the dismissal but from what you have said it seems that you would have grounds to file for unfair dismissal. It seems grossly unfair to call you into a disciplinary meeting just after you have been out and in hospital for a few weeks without the opportunity to have someone with you. A formal meeting just a couple of days later, on a Sunday, with only 24 hours notice, is also unfair as you had no real chance to take someone with you.

How long have you been working for the company? Are you a member of a union that could assist you?

You may not want to return to the company but you should fight to leave with your head held high and not under a cloud of gross misconduct for a matter that they have not investigated properly as they didn't give you a proper chance to respond to the allegations.

OP for future reference, these types of threads are better in Work or Legal - there are people on there who actually understand the law!

Firstly, I would be incredibly surprised if the police were remotely interested in this. I don’t think you need to be overly concerned about that - this is far more likely to be a civil issue than a criminal one.

And kindly, the posters who are encouraging you to pursue a claim are not giving you the correct advice. This was likely gross misconduct, and with less then two years service, they don’t need to follow any procedure unless it’s contractual - they just need to be able to show that factually, you committed a fundamental breach of contract (and breaching trust is an implied term which can be breached with inaccurate expenses claims). I’d also add that, when it comes to fraud, even a few pounds in discrepancy will often be found to be gross misconduct, so £900 is significant.

I’m saying this so you don’t waste your efforts by channeling your energy into the wrong thing. But these things happen, you didn’t do it intentionally, and things will get easier for you in time.