I was fired for Gross Misconduct today.

[HoldingOnatoday]

Just need to talk to someone outside of my family really. It’s been a tough time recently, lost my mum and then I got Pneumonia and ended up in intensive care for six weeks.

I returned to work on Friday and had an investigation meeting where I was accused of submitting fraudulent expense mileage claims. I disputed some which were left on an agree to disagrees. Some id accidentally left in, where I’d been to visit clients homes, the clients had cancelled and I’d forgot to remove the mileage. Its auto done for us but alas I should’ve manually removed them. I accept responsibility and this is on me.

I’ve put in £10,000 (I do a lot of driving/stay in hotels) worth of expenses in the last year and £900 was found to be fraud. These were the cancelled ones I’d not deleted. They’re going to contact the police and I’m not sure if anything will come to it. It was done more job negligence (I’ve not been up to par) than maliciously. I’ve been scattered brained, driving 7 hours a day for work often and running on empty.

The thing is I’m good at my job, I’m a good person I’d like to think. But I’m so broken by this, I’ve finally got a good credit rating, which will now be damaged by mortgage repayments and bills being missed. I’m also scared at the prospect of going to prison/declaring this to future employers. I have offered to pay back and this was rejected.

Im not looking for Sympathy, just for a way forward because I really feel like ending it all today. I’ve applied for Christmas temp work today but not sure if anything will come from it.

OP, I’ve been in the position of being told I have to “get rid” of someone a few times. Nearly always very senior execs.

The place I go to every time I’ve ever had to do this is expenses. It is guaranteed to throw up errors when people put through a high level of expense claims. Human error will always happen. But because it is the responsibility of the employee to make sure the claim is correct, it is an easy thing to hang someone out to dry on.

For a criminal conviction for fraud the prosecution would need to prove intent. Given that you failed to remove cancelled trips rather than entered them after they were cancelled, it is unlikely that they would meet the bar to show that you intended to deceive. You were negligent but not fraudulent.

If you were to be arrested for fraud make sure you have legal representation for all interviews.

You may have employment law covered on your home insurance policy as a top tip, it helped me no end. Please take advice. Have you been off over the last 9 months because it feels to me they were looking for something to get rid of you on. They shouldn't be firing on one case of error. And it is your line managers responsibility to check.

I think you should’ve been allowed to have somebody present at this meeting

She was. OP said she didn't take anyone else to the meeting because she felt embarrassed. Which is a shame but she has a right to decline to have anyone else accompany her to the meeting.

Please speak to your local law centre. There are deadlines for taking matters further and for the sake of a phone call checking your rights I would say it is worth it. You have been treated shabbily by your employer. https://www.lawcentres.org.uk/

Do you think your employer investigated your mitigating circumstances thoroughly before deciding to dismiss you? This should be part of any investigation and should inform the decision made.

I’m a police officer and this really isn’t something we’d be chomping at the bit to get at. Where is the crime? Where was your intent to permanently deprive this company of their assets:money? Those questions need to be answered before offfers turn up to question you about what really seems like administrative oversight

I suspect the threat of police is to make you shut up and go quietly. And it’s working because you’re scared and focussing on prison (laughable - won’t happen)

fight back. Email them laying out their flawed system. Why was your boss signing off ‘fraudulent’ mileage claims? Is he ‘in in it’ too? Ask them. Is he lazy? Incompetent?

whole thing is just stupid. Seek proper advice and do not go quietly

OP, what you could do is say that you wish to appeal the decision. They should provide you with a letter that includes information on who to appeal to. Often it is by email and within five days, so you have to move quickly. You don't need to give a lot of information, just state the grounds you are appealing on. So a quick email will do it and should then trigger a further internal investigation. What that means is that another member of HR and a senior manager that haven't been involved in the case up to this point have to review all of the information. It costs you nothing to do but does mean that more pairs of eyes have to scrutinise everything.

I am not saying that this will change the outcome. As I said before I can see why they have reached this decision given the number of discrepancies and the fact it's been happening for a long time. But I think it's worth you appealing if you can face it.

Honestly OP - It sounds like they wanted to get rid of you and have used this as an excuse to do so. There has been no investigation and notifying you yesterday, for a meeting to be held today gave you no chance of taking anyone with you anyway. They've pulled a fast one and threats of the police are to keep you quiet. I think you have a case for an employment tribunal, but you will need to go through ACAS first. I think the whistleblowing set things off and they have probably been looking for a way to get rid of you since then.

Please do go further with this - you may at least get an agreed reference with no mention of the reasons for dismissal - but my gut says you could succeed at tribunal if there's a whistleblowing element to this. They won't want the publicity.

I know you are exhausted, but how old are you? This is going to effect your future employability. It is a standard question on job applications, to be asked if you've ever been dismissed.
Unless you are near retirement then you MUST fight this.

If your employer has followed a proper process OP they should’ve outlined your right to appeal and the timeframe for appealing. I would contact ACAS for free advice and enquire about early conciliation as they may be able to support with this.

Sounds like your employer was looking for a reason to get rid and found one. I know you are not well enough to want to fight but take a look at your house insurance and see if you have legal cover. A good lawyer should get an agreement that you pay them back and go quietly and they drop any case against you. If it did come to court I cant see a jury convicting in this case because of the peculiar admin systems, your personal problems and your willingness to repay, their lawyer would be telling them that. At best you might get agreement that they will supply a bland reference simply confirming how long you worked there.

This is not the end of the world. There are other jobs.

Right, this sounds very off in terms of process and I encourage you to appeal.
All the rest assunmes you've been there more than two years, if you haven't, I'm afraid you have a lot less rights (though you can still try).

Whilst there is no statutory procedures, the disciplinary process must be fair and reasonable. Very short notice (especially a day starting on a weekend) for these meetings simply is neither. You had no time to prepare and even if you had wanted to take a work colleague you wouldn't have had time to arrange one.

• Did the letter 'inviting' you to attend the hearing warn you could face dismissal?
• Do you have a copy of the company disciplinary policy?
• What does that say about notice for investigation meeings and disciplinary hearings? Have they breached theer own policy?
• Does it have any timeframe for appealing and instructions on who to submit it to?
• Is there an HR department and were they in the meetings? (I bloody hope not). If there is, please copy the appeal letter to them as well.
• Have they sent the outcome letter to you yet? How that is worded in terms of why they have chosen dismissal as an outcome is important, so make sure your request one if you don't get one asap.

If you appeal, you may not be able to avoid dismissal but you might be able to get it taken down from 'gross misconduct'. This at least means you get paid out notice, and reputationally is not as bad for seeking future emplyment. At appeal you may be able to successfully argue they haven't reasonably into taken into account your mitigating circumstances (helath etc) and the fact the 'back up' of sign off by a senior manager failed. Unless it's clear you were deliberately trying to hide the incorrect claims, the very first one shoujld have been picked up by the manager and you warned (even formally) to be more careful about cancelled appointments.

Please do call ACAS for advice, or even better speak to an employment lawyer. I realise that will cost money but reputationally it may be a good investment, especially in how to phrase your appeal letter and speak at the hearing. If not, if you want more help feel free to PM me (not a lawyer but experienced HR professional who hates companies not getting the basics right),

I'd be less worried about the threat of the police. Even if they do report it, the chances of CPS deciding to lay charges for £900 is low, they have far bigger fish to fry and a massive backlog of prosecutions.

PS: When did you 'whistleblow' and do you have evidence? That's a protected act and you may potentially have a very diffferent claim to make (google interim relief).

This.

why do people keep saying its only 9%

£10000 was Mileage AND HOTELS

I like to give people benefit of the doubt and probably wouldnt have dismissed unless 100% sure it was genuine fraud.

But people saying fight it, got a genuine case.

Sorry but its nonsense, with a high chancr of losing.

why risk high legal bill

OP you wouldn't go to prison for this. However take time to rest for a week or so, then contact ACAS or if your house insurance covers it, a solicitor.

Sorry for everything you're going through, it sounds very difficult.

If you are in a University town OP you might be able to get help from a student legal advice team - they are set up to assist law students and advice is overseen by tutors who are legally trained, and sometimes University in-house solicitors.

There is a list of legal clinics here. Not all universities are listed so could be worth searching specifically for your local uni if that is an option.

They’re disputing £900 and OP says this is because she forgot to sort it out. She’s been seriously unwell so why are you calling it nonsense ?

Right, this sounds very off in terms of process and I encourage you to appeal. All the rest assunmes you've been there more than two years, if you haven't, I'm afraid you have a lot less rights (though you can still try).

You can make an automatically unfair dismissal claim with less than 2 years service if there is a whistleblowing element - also if the OP has a disability she can make a claim

This is good advice. Sounds like you should appeal-you have nothing to lose. You may only have 5 working days to do it, so do it quick. And bring a Rep if you can

She has been paid the money 🤦

Its literally no excuse.

Am talking about its nonsense for her having a case. Its black and white.

I feel sorry for her, think it probably it is genuine, but where is her case ?

Its been on going for 9 months

I'm so sorry OP, this sounds awful. I'd definitely query your manager's role in all of this. If they're willing to throw you under a bus then it works both ways. If they're willing to dismiss you for human error then why shouldn't your manager's poor approvals process be called into question?

Hou've had lots of good advice - I think you do need to consider challenging this decision and ACAS would be a good place to start.
Please don't worry about being sent to prison, that simply won't happen.

I feel a bit sorry for OP. She did just what a hug and some support and said she wasn’t challenging it, and now 9 pages telling her what to do 😭