I was fired for Gross Misconduct today.

[HoldingOnatoday]

Just need to talk to someone outside of my family really. It’s been a tough time recently, lost my mum and then I got Pneumonia and ended up in intensive care for six weeks.

I returned to work on Friday and had an investigation meeting where I was accused of submitting fraudulent expense mileage claims. I disputed some which were left on an agree to disagrees. Some id accidentally left in, where I’d been to visit clients homes, the clients had cancelled and I’d forgot to remove the mileage. Its auto done for us but alas I should’ve manually removed them. I accept responsibility and this is on me.

I’ve put in £10,000 (I do a lot of driving/stay in hotels) worth of expenses in the last year and £900 was found to be fraud. These were the cancelled ones I’d not deleted. They’re going to contact the police and I’m not sure if anything will come to it. It was done more job negligence (I’ve not been up to par) than maliciously. I’ve been scattered brained, driving 7 hours a day for work often and running on empty.

The thing is I’m good at my job, I’m a good person I’d like to think. But I’m so broken by this, I’ve finally got a good credit rating, which will now be damaged by mortgage repayments and bills being missed. I’m also scared at the prospect of going to prison/declaring this to future employers. I have offered to pay back and this was rejected.

Im not looking for Sympathy, just for a way forward because I really feel like ending it all today. I’ve applied for Christmas temp work today but not sure if anything will come from it.

It sounds like you've had an awful time of it. I have to admit I have very little experience having always worked in the public sector. In NHS our mileage has to be signed off. If I submitted something wrong, my boss would not sign it off, would ring me and say 'I'm confused by this, I thought that client cancelled', I'd say 'oh, so sorry, I forgot to remove it from my expenses, I'll do it now'. They'd say 'ok, please don't do it again as it could be considered attempted fraud' and I'd say 'sorry again, I'll be more careful in future'. I don't understand why, knowing how much has been happening for you recently, your company has jumped straight to this being intentional fraud.

I know that you are not looking for sympathy, but I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. Is it worth contacting an employment law specialist, or your union if you belong to one? Did your employee give you notice of this meeting or spring it on you when you arrived for work?
I am not an expert, but I'm pretty sure you should have been given the opportunity to have someone present at the meeting.
In the meantime, applying for Christmas temp jobs sounds like a good idea. Is it worth applying for Job seekers allowance (or whatever it's called now) to see what you may be entitled to? Good luck OP, you've had a nasty shock, but honestly, this too shall pass even though it doesn't feel like it will in this moment.

I'm so sorry. Was the £900 over a few journeys, or lots of journeys? Was it over a long time frame, or all within a short period? I think it's easier to challenge if it's a few journeys over a short period, because you can demonstrate that you're generally diligent. But if it's over a long period and lots of journeys, it will be harder.

First things first, contact Samaritans or take yourself to a&e.

Then contact everyone you pay bills/mortgage to. Explain the situation and they will be willing to help.

I’m no expert, I’d be wanting some advice on whether this is reasonable given the extenuating circumstances and what is clearly a flawed process that allows this to happen. Can you try ACAS if you’re not in a union?

"Some id accidentally left in, where I’d been to visit clients homes, the clients had cancelled and I’d forgot to remove the mileage. Its auto done for us but alas I should’ve manually removed them. I accept responsibility and this is on me."

I don't understand this part, @HoldingOnatoday.

Do you mean that you drove to visit the clients in their homes because you did not know that they had cancelled?

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to claim for mileage in this situation unless you were somehow at fault.

It’s hard for an employer to successfully dismiss someone for Gross Misconduct. I would suggest calling the Acas helpline immediately for their perspective.

Sorry you are having a rotten time of things. Please seek help from your GP or the Samaritans if you are feeling really low. Everything else is fixable or will pasd, you've already had some great advice on here

If you genuinely made these as mistakes due to some extenuating personal circumstances, I would definitely contact ACAS because if you get sacked for fraud, then you will struggle to get other jobs in future… let alone the police element.

I can see how it happened with everything you’ve had going on and a system which seems wide open to human error but from the employer perspective 9% of your total claims were false, which is massive - they probably allow a smaller margin for error but not that high.
Hopefully you can find another employer in the industry who needs a you? Sounds like you’ve got good customer relationships which are vital in many industries.
Good luck, take care if yourself first and foremost

Oh OP I really do feel for you this is awful. Sending you an unmumsnetty hug 🫂

Surely if they automatically put the mileage in for you and you need to manually remove it whilst overload: driving 7 hours a day for work!! The system they've put in place without regular checks being carried out isn't ideal and they maybe partly to blame by the sound of it. They've kind of set you up to fail overloading you like that especially following the berevement.

Maybe you can speak to a union if you have one or a lawyer (some home insurance policies include legal advice). Do you think they were looking for an excuse to get rid of you due to sickness and the period of time before that you'd been struggling? Maybe you should look down the employment law route as a way to protect to yourself. As someone else said the employer'smilegage process sounds, wide open to human error.

Regarding finances could you look at getting a lodger? It's quite straightforward via spareroom or something like that.

Keep you chin up, keep moving forward and applying for temp roles (could you look for temp in your field, sometimes they pay better than permanent roles).

Best of luck OP 💐

I would contact an employment lawyer. I suspect they wanted rid of you and want you to go quietly, hence the threat of the police. For a crime they would need to prove an intention beyond reasonable doubt.

please look after yourself, it sounds like you have been through a tough time. Get yourself to the doctor too and explain how everything that’s happened is affecting your mental health and ability to function normally

Yes I agree get legal advice. ASAP.

Thats harsh. Can you talk to HR?

Are you saying that the 'fraudelent' journey's are autoloaded on to the system and you then have to remove them, or that you inputted them before they were due to happen and were then cancelled and you forgot to remove them. Either way this is a terrible expenses system, the one used in NHS Wales does not allow you to input any journey until the day it is happening.

Either of these things would suggest a systems flaw, and i think it is highly unlikely that you would go to prison in this case with any half decent solicitor, and i would suggest speaking to you Union lawyer or ACAS or looking at your home insurance legal cover.

Are you in a Union?

So basically our mileage counts automatically for all journeys recorded in our system. If a journey is cancelled, sometimes the system will automatically remove this, sometimes not and it’s up to the employee to check before submitting. It also goes to my boss who checks it over before submitting but he just submits anything it seems and doesn’t recheck. No word about him when I mentioned it other than I should’ve checked and it was my responsibility.

It was over nine months so not recently but that’s when trouble started really for me, mum got ill, I was trying to manage work and home and I expectations. Would tell my manager and he’d say oh it’ll quieten down soon. I was doing 6 hours a day driving to cover a larger area than normal so lots of things combined.

Im trying to take each moment as it comes. I’m still recovering (I’m on oxygen even at home). I’m more scared of going to prison or court than anything. I haven’t even cried yet as I feel exhausted and numb towards it all. I haven’t done this for financial gain even though if their eyes it’ll appear like that.

I could fight it but personally I’m so physically exhausted and mentally tired, I can’t imagine doing so. I’d never want to work for them again anyway after this.

I think ACAS might be very helpful in this situation. Also, if you’re eligible, start your universal credit claim today. You must feel so shocked, but making positive, constructive steps will help. If you’re feeling low, keep talking on here or ideally call a friend or loved one, if you can arrange to meet up with someone, even better!

Well no, it would be for the CPS to prove beyond reasonable doubt, in court. Not for the employer - they are perfectly entitled to report it to the police for investigation (who will then pursue or not pursue as they see fit)

OP - please seek help today, call Samaritans or a trusted family member or friend

@HoldingOnatoday But if you did the mileage for work related reasons, even if it turned out that the client had cancelled, why would you not be able to claim for it?

I was also confused by this. Is it something op has missed? I hope so as it could be mitigation.

No sorry, so say on Thursday at 8am, I would be due to see a client. They’d ring and cancel, I’d work from home. If that makes sense? So no miles were done.

First off - if you do feel like hurting yourself, please seek immeduate help.

Secondly, speak with your union or ACAS. There will be procedures in place and your work may not have followed them.

Thirdly, obviously I dont know but I doubt they'll get police involved for £900.

Good luck.

Your employers process is clearly broken and not fit for pupose. You should have to manually claim all mileage if the system is incapable of cancelling 100% when it should. Employee shouldn’t have to check imho, either it works reliably or it doesn’t.

That said, you can’t blame recent events on your laxity 9 months ago.
So both to blame imho.

Get employment law advice straight away. A reasonable compromise would surely be that you refund them and go quietly rather than have fraud and gross misconduct on your employment history.