I was fired for Gross Misconduct today.

[HoldingOnatoday]

Just need to talk to someone outside of my family really. It’s been a tough time recently, lost my mum and then I got Pneumonia and ended up in intensive care for six weeks.

I returned to work on Friday and had an investigation meeting where I was accused of submitting fraudulent expense mileage claims. I disputed some which were left on an agree to disagrees. Some id accidentally left in, where I’d been to visit clients homes, the clients had cancelled and I’d forgot to remove the mileage. Its auto done for us but alas I should’ve manually removed them. I accept responsibility and this is on me.

I’ve put in £10,000 (I do a lot of driving/stay in hotels) worth of expenses in the last year and £900 was found to be fraud. These were the cancelled ones I’d not deleted. They’re going to contact the police and I’m not sure if anything will come to it. It was done more job negligence (I’ve not been up to par) than maliciously. I’ve been scattered brained, driving 7 hours a day for work often and running on empty.

The thing is I’m good at my job, I’m a good person I’d like to think. But I’m so broken by this, I’ve finally got a good credit rating, which will now be damaged by mortgage repayments and bills being missed. I’m also scared at the prospect of going to prison/declaring this to future employers. I have offered to pay back and this was rejected.

Im not looking for Sympathy, just for a way forward because I really feel like ending it all today. I’ve applied for Christmas temp work today but not sure if anything will come from it.

Yes this was what our HR did (how nice!)
They did find some corkers....

The best/ worst was £2.5k of clothing from a japan trip claimed as lunches 😅😅😅

@HoldingOnatoday you will NOT go to prison get that out of yout mind.

I urge you to take care of your mental health and seek medication / help / whatever via your gp.
You have been through a huge amount, this on top is a lot to handle and most people would seriously struggle with it.

Also i forgot to say
Be aware! If and when you negotiate your exit you can negotiate wording for your reference. A lot of people do not know this...

This. I can't imagine an employment tribunal would go entirely in your employer's favour. I'm really sorry OP, nobody is.perfect.

I agree. It seems to me this is more about bad administration because of difficult personal circumstances than about systematic fraud. I lost a parent not too long ago and even though it was expected and logical because of the advanced age, I was extremely tired and walking around like a zombie for at least 6 months after the passing.
Let me also say that I think it's really typical that they go for low hanging fruit and punish someone who did not have bad intentions harshly all while letting the real frauds get away with murder.

My thoughts exactly.
They wanted to lay you off as cheaply as possible.
Fight back.

Your manager did the exact same thing as you, didn’t check the submissions.

I know you are tired and unwell, but fight it.

I think some posters maybe have no experience of this kind of system.

the system, based on what’s scheduled, inputs the mileage.
‘if a client cancels, then based on if the system has the cancellation recorded, it will delete the mileage, thus saving admin work for the employee.
not all cancellations are in the system correctly . As such the employees only role is to go through the expenses, confirm all valid ie they did each visit, and submit,
any cancellations not recorded by the system they remove the mileage at this point.
for several months the op was confirming the expense claim was valid and submitting, and was paid 900 pounds extra.
this is deemed fraudulent.

seperately ..
the managers role is to check, if the manager fails in this, they will also be disciplined.
The op is not privy to what disciplinary action the manager is facing, as this is confidential.
However that will be failure in a duty, not fraud. So likely a lesser disciplinary maybe a final warning.
Maybe fired but I am not sure it is gross misconduct, either way it is irrelevant, as it does not change the ops responsibility to not submit mileage claims for journeys she did not take.

op, if you face financial or mental hardship then there are organisations you can reach out to, I won’t repeat them again as others have posted them.

i would try to negotiate a reference personally, to enable you to find another role when ready, however as this was repeated behaviour over many months, and we don’t know your company policy it is hard to say what they will do ie police or in regard references, many take a zero tolerance position and also it will depend on what they have done with others who have done this before. I’d be surprised if it was police, but again much depends on how often they’ve faced this.

as much as you were under huge stress during this period, as you will know, everyone who does this sadly will have a story to justify it, so often employers simply follow policy when they see it.

good luck. I hope you make a full recovery and find better employment.

That’s very short sighted, the op financially benefited, she is the submitter, so yes they both didn’t check, but only the op financially benefitted. And she has no idea , rightly so, what is happening to the manager. She can’t know this, it is confidential.

well yes that would be common sense.

and of course manager should be checking, as human error. Finance always double check expenses and call if there's an error or something doesn't make sense.

This isn't only OPs error at all. In fact as manager £900 of unnoticed expenses is a massive issue

It's over the last year not the last month.

No one is saying it is only ghe ops error. This doesn’t change what the outcome is for her. It simply dictates what others will also face.

Yes, I said it had been ongoing all year.

I'm not clear about the time line regarding your illness and return to work.

You said you returned to work on Friday, was that following your sick leave for pneumonia or "returning" as in going into the office? Were you given notification that you were being investigated and told you were within your rights to bring a representative with you to the meeting?

It does sound like they have looked for and found an excuse to get rid of you possibly because of your sickness absence. I know you must have been in a state of shock but I think you need legal advice and copies of the company policy on dismissal for gross misconduct. Even where instant dismissal for gross misconduct is part of company policy you are usually suspended pending a full investigation and hearing where you are permitted to have someone to present your case.

The system of travel expenses being completing automatically sounds ripe for these sorts of errors.

They sound like shitty employers but it's worth fighting so that you can have your official reason for leaving be resignation rather than fired for gross misconduct.

Darling, you are worth much much more than a stupid £900 expenses bill. Please pick up the phone to your GP today and get your suicidal ideation recorded and some mental health first aid. The Samaritans are also there 24/7 if you need someone to hand hold.
The sentence for a £900 expenses mishap (or even a £900 intentional fraud) is not death.
I promise you that you will get through this.

@HoldingOnatoday I’m sorry this happened. Please do not just take this from them, contact ACAS/citizens’ advice or whoever and fight it. Their processes sound awful and your Manager should have your back. If you didn’t set out to fiddle your expenses do not let them fire you for exactly that. I know you are clearly poorly and suffering but this is one fight not to walk away from. I appreciate you don’t want to work there again but fight for your reputation. Good luck!

Still a crap system though isn’t it?

THIS!.

You poor love...
I cannot imagine what it would be like to go through all of that, six weeks! in hospital and come back to work to be faced with this.

You won't have to return to work there if you get legal advice and have someone in your corner fighting it for you. It may well mean that you can stop this in its tracks. You don't have to do this alone.

I know that you are feeling ill and exhausted and the last thing you want is to fight this.... but please go to ACAS for advice on next steps and you won't be doing this alone ( you may be able to claim on your household insurance for solicitors if neede).

It doesn't sound like your employer has follow correct legal proceedures and has threatened you when they know you are feeling weak. I also think they were looking for a way to get you to leave. The way they have gone about this is awful.

Legal help will help you to clear your name and your reputation at the very least it will secure a better outcome than just letting employers win.

And please see your GP and get it on the record how this has made you feel and affected your health.

I hope you do get advice and as much help as possible.

If your employer goes to the police, you absolutely will not go to prison.

Do you have a history of using this system prior to those months?

I know you didn’t ask for sympathy but I’m sending it anyway. We all make mistakes. Nobody died. You will find another job and this won’t stain your employment record for ever. Any chance you can negotiate something with your employer that they let you go voluntarily? Unless they have good reason to believe this was deliberate, £900 isn’t a fortune.

You can apply to a general union and get a representative. We had a similar case in my work. Where the person was let go for gross misconduct. He counter claimed as he was going through a hard time with his dad in end of life care. He used the help of a general union.
I think you should speak to ACAS and also Unison. You can also get free legal advice if you google BPP Employment law telephone advice service.
I would recommend tou contact these three services right away to get some clarity.

Could you counter claim as they’d made you drive six hours a day probably without sufficient breaks and rest?

This is terrible from your employer. You really should have been off sick if you couldn’t manage the work as well as you normally would when in good health. They’ve lost a good employee by the sounds of it- I wouldn’t worry too much about the police; I doubt they’ll care!! It’s obvious why you’ve not been coping what with being ill and losing your mum. So sorry for your loss. Be kind to yourself xxx

Also you’re not going to prison, no one goes to prison for very minor fraud, which is the absolute worse this is.

OP, as others have said here it may be hard to advocate for yourself right now, but it is definitely worth doing. Where I work (public sector), a member of staff who made such an error (for the first time) would be supported to not make it again. Also questions would be asked of line manager as to whether support had been offered to you during what sounds like a very difficult set of personal circumstances. Both ACAS and the Sams are good calls. But don't get railroaded into doing anything by your employer. The situation is tough but take a pause.

Oh, and of course, your life is worth a billion times more than any job. It might be a cliche but the world is definitely better for having you here.

Seems like their system is deeply flawed- technically you haven’t claimed anything the system claimed on your behalf and due to overwhelm and being off sick you forgot to manually remove it- surely your line manager could have done this on your behalf if you were off sick. Another vote for call ACAS.

Big hugs it sounds like you have had a horrid time of it- hope you have some support around you.

OP you have already had some excellent advice on here.
I am very sorry for your situation, I haven't read the whole thread but I hope you have strong family support.
I know it is difficult but you do need to find the energy somehow to try and fight this, not on the basis of getting your job back but on the basis of clearing your name.
I think it is a case of:

Appealing your employers decision
Contacting your Union or ACAS
Seeking legal advice

Good luck OP and please hang on in there because as bad as things feel now in a few weeks/months things will all be very different.