I was fired for Gross Misconduct today.

[HoldingOnatoday]

Just need to talk to someone outside of my family really. It’s been a tough time recently, lost my mum and then I got Pneumonia and ended up in intensive care for six weeks.

I returned to work on Friday and had an investigation meeting where I was accused of submitting fraudulent expense mileage claims. I disputed some which were left on an agree to disagrees. Some id accidentally left in, where I’d been to visit clients homes, the clients had cancelled and I’d forgot to remove the mileage. Its auto done for us but alas I should’ve manually removed them. I accept responsibility and this is on me.

I’ve put in £10,000 (I do a lot of driving/stay in hotels) worth of expenses in the last year and £900 was found to be fraud. These were the cancelled ones I’d not deleted. They’re going to contact the police and I’m not sure if anything will come to it. It was done more job negligence (I’ve not been up to par) than maliciously. I’ve been scattered brained, driving 7 hours a day for work often and running on empty.

The thing is I’m good at my job, I’m a good person I’d like to think. But I’m so broken by this, I’ve finally got a good credit rating, which will now be damaged by mortgage repayments and bills being missed. I’m also scared at the prospect of going to prison/declaring this to future employers. I have offered to pay back and this was rejected.

Im not looking for Sympathy, just for a way forward because I really feel like ending it all today. I’ve applied for Christmas temp work today but not sure if anything will come from it.

That system sounds bound to fail. Are you in a union? If so, contact them.

So you don't actually claim money but you're expected to cancel it?

And this has happened to be noticed whilst you have been off ill for 6wks.

Hmmm!

I hope you get the chance to pay back & resign with a good reference.

I know you must feel exhausted and broken
But I really think you need to fight it or at least get some advice . It sounds as though it was an honest mistake in extreme circumstances and also your boss has done culpability here. What is the point of having a system if checks if he doesn't actually check.

I'm so sorry that you're going through this, and that you're having a horrible time in general. I hope you manage to keep your chin up.

1. OP fails to notify company of cancelled appt and WFH instead

Reading the OPs second post, it seems she did cancel the appointment but because of the booking system it cancelled only some of the milage claims and not others. Is that right OP?

If it was a genuine mistake then accept it and move on. Unfortunately ignorance is not an excuse.

did your employer make it clear that such actions would result in dismissal? If not, fight it.

did you know deep down that you were misappropriating? If so, reflect on that and learn from it.

it’s not worth ending your life over

Fight it - they’re using their crappy system to let you go because you’ve been off sick.

Agree with @SalmonOnFinnCrisp - get an SAR in asap to get all your data.

Our old Chief People Officer once told me that when our company wants to get rid of someone, the first thing they do is pull up their expenses and go through them with a fine tooth comb. She said that they always find something - ranging from admin things like missing receipts, having claimed twice for the same thing or going over policy limits for what you can spend on lunch, all the way up to using company money to fund prostitutes, mistresses and foreign holidays.

This would not have been a problem if you were not having to pay your own expenses in the first place. You should have had help with compiling the expense claim, you have been doing the company a favour by funding these trips anyway.

I’d get a a lawyer and ask for the manager to equally be accused of gross misconduct for signing off on what they claim are fraudulent expenses, and raise a grievance for the managers lack of support over the past year re workload that’s led to you making silly mistakes.
if you really push it you should get a settlement for their fuck ups rather than have to pay it back for yours, which were partly a result of theirs.

Why should you pay for travel to clients home if they cancelled last minute?

Because otherwise it makes no sense you travelling to clients’ homes if they cancelled well in advance.

"I could fight it but personally I’m so physically exhausted and mentally tired, I can’t imagine doing so. "

I bet that is exactly what the company is counting on. Yes there were clearly mistakes but if your manager needs to sign these off then clearly there are other issues. You should find the energy now to seek advice as it could mean the difference from being sacked to changing it to something else (like you both agree its not working out) and they may then need to ensure you get your legal entitlements

This happened in my workplace when a colleague was sacked for irregularities.

They existed but probably 90% of people in the building would have been equally guilty if checked.

I think you should fight this. Ask them to agree it’s not grss misconduct and that you are leaving due to personal reasons/ will have a clean reference

When you feel up to it, I would recommend contacting an employment lawyer (it’s around £500 for 2 hours discussion). I have had family and friends use one recently and they have reached a better outcome. You might get a small settlement or something to tide you over for a few months giving you some breathing space.

I am sorry this happened to you on top of everything else and a better manager would have protected you.

Please don't worry about prison, it isn't going to happen, but please get an urgent GP appointment or talk to the Samaritans.

Sorry but that's incorrect advice you've given as to whether a crime has been committed. Beyond reasonable doubt is the standard of proof a jury must reach in court, if a prosecution gets that far. Fraud is "a dishonest act committed with the intention of making a gain or causing a loss to another". The question for the OP is whether the policies of the organisation made it clear the onus was on her to delete the mileage claims related to cancelled appointments. Get legal advice OP and ask the mortgage company for a payment holiday.

I think they’re trying to get rid of you because of your time off sick and they think they have found an easy solution to threaten you with and avoid the expense of going through the proper procedures.

They’re Fuckers. DO NOT LET THEM WIN!

You need to speak to a specialist employment lawyer asap.

It’s not Fraud because they’d have to prove intent and you have at least 2 strong arguments in your defence that I can see immediately.

1. Your manager should never sign off expenses over a long period of months without at least doing a few spot checks to ensure accuracy. If you were deliberately trying to defraud the company, why has he not been held accountable in some way?

(Answer: because they’re not trying to get rid of him!)

I understand from your replies that all of your over payments related to mileage claimed for cancelled appointments?

Therefore, why haven’t they fixed the IT system that they already know is flawed and unreliable? If the IT system was working correctly, it would have removed all the cancelled appointments and there would be NO overpayments at all.

You really should fight this and I appreciate that you’re feeling very unwell but if you’re in a Union, contact them and ask for legal representation.

It’s like the bloody Post Office/Fujitsu scandal all over again. 😡

1. Phone ACAS. There is probably a time frame for an appeal, and it might be quite short. It’s probably worth challenging it, even if don’t put much effort in. It adds to the records that says you didn’t agree with their record.
2. Phone Samaritans. Or other mental health support. If you’re a union member make them earn their money. Phone them. If you’re not, and you pay for legal advice cover on any insurance policies do use them.
3. Later this week, start a job seekers allowance claim.
4. Next week, sit down and look at budget, committed costs etc. Phone your biggest bills and tell them you’ve got a problem. Credit report defaults are only payments missed without an agreement. Your mortgage provider can give you an interest only period if have financial challenges.

ACAS and a lawyer
This is about your sickness record

Sorry I haven’t RTFT due to time constraints. Some clarification may be helpful -
Is it £900 out of £10,000?
How many cancelled trips does this equate to? It may look different in terms of seriousness if we can understand this.

Agree the process sounds open to error. However I suspect there is something when you submit it which states you declare it as a true record. 9% is a high error rate so can see why they are treating it seriously. The amounts you dispute were for how much in addition? How long have you been there? Might they look further back.

ACAS would be worth a call. I doubt police would pursue it but the company may be required to report it, and it would not be significant enough for prison, especially if you offered to repay. The main thing you can do is try to agree a neutral reference and hope cps don’t take it forward. Are there potential professional or regulatory implications?

Sorry about your personal circumstances but almost 10% of your claims in the last month being false is really high. I’m surprised no one involved flagged this sooner particularly as it has been ongoing all year.

I agree you need proper legal advice but if everything you say here is true then I can't see you facing prison time for this. I have reported on court cases involving fraud and it is usually far higher sums of money involved for a jail term. It may reassure you to look at the sentencing council's guidelines for fraud. The culpability and sums involved in what you describe are at the very lowest end of the scale. If you're of previous good character and have mitigating factors like what was going on in your life at the time, I think you'd be very unlikely to face a prison term. That's if it even goes to court at all. As others have said, it seems like a serious systems error at the heart of this.

Please seek help and support from the people in your life and if you can't do that please speak to the Samaritans. This is a horrible thing for you to be going through but people survive these situations all the time. It isn't the end of the world and it definitely should not be the end of your life.

I guess you are in the UK so I am not familiar with the system there but if you have a trade union contact them ASAP. The way you describe it and the amount it is about make me think the Gross Misconduct qualification is excessive, especially since you were confronted with very difficult circumstances in your private life and your health.
My feeling is that they wanted to fire you maybe because they thought you were too costly because of the illness and just tried to find something against you to avoid having to pay you compensation for terminating the contract they had with you.
Trade unions normally have lawyers specialize in these matters. If you are not a member, check if you can become one starting today and using their legal assistance. If that is not possible I would contact a lawyer specialized in labor law.