"Jihad": A few things don't add up...?

[Beachtastic]

I know it's early days and we don't have much info to go on about the killer at the Manchester synagogue. But this BBC news article is very confusing.

He's described as a "35-year-old British citizen of Syrian descent" who "was granted British citizenship in 2006 when he was around the age of 16" ... my maths is shit, but 2025 minus 2006 = 19...? Other articles says he was a minor when he was given citizenship.

Apparently he was "on police bail after being arrested on suspicion of rape at the time of the killings" but "was not charged with the offence."

His parents, understandably, have made a strong statement distancing themselves from his actions, but the article goes on to say:

A post on his father's Facebook page, which has been verified by the BBC, appears to praise the 7 October attack by Hamas.
... The post reads: "The scenes broadcast by the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades showing a group of fighters storming an occupation army camp with simple means, balloons and motorcycles, prove beyond any doubt that Israel is not here to stay.
"Men like these prove that they are Allah's men on earth, regardless of who leads them, they are the true compass for men confident in their victory, even if their resources are few."

It also says his father is a surgeon... and that "Jihad" was his birth name.

I'm not sure where to begin processing all this information, if it's true. Quite surprised to find it reported by the BBC to be honest.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0q7y72kppgo

You lost me at the point where you were unable to add 19 and 16 but felt qualified to pontificate on events nevertheless

I'm sorry you think I'm pontificating. I was hoping this thread might help us all explore what we're actually afraid of.

Something else I have found in my experience is, non-Jews who are very pro-Israel have a weird obsession with Islam and Muslims. You see the same non Jewish, Pro Israel posters on almost all the threads regarding Islam and Muslims.

But I think we need to be very clear about what radical Islam is. Until that's clear to everyone, it's all a mess.

We're past that now, people make mistakes.

Same - it's simple maths too.

Jihad means ‘struggle’. It’s like calling your kid Charity, Hope or Grace. It’s actually quite common in the Middle East.

Also, Jihad is not just about warfare. There are plenty of other meanings in Islam, a lot of it is about self reflection and being a good human. The term has however been used by extremists in warfare and that’s all the West knows it to be. The concept can be, but isn’t always negative.

It’s not at all true to say Britain is (mostly) a secular society. The country still has an Established church, loads of state schools which are also faith schools, and hundreds of years of laws and morals directly influenced by Christianity. Ok the mass of the population don’t go to church and many don’t identify themselves on censuses as observing any particular religion, but a society doesn’t shake off its roots quite so easily. The influence of Christianity is more present in modern-day Britain than many of us would like to believe - for good or ill.

I agree with the above post.

Radical anything is a warped and dangerous.

There are radical Christians doing bad things in the name of Christianity. A quick Google shows articles of incidents in America. It doesn't make Christianity a bad religion.

There are radical Jews doing terrible things, the Settlers in West Bank. That doesn't make Judiasm a bad religion.

There are radical Muslims killing people, like in Manchester. It doesn't make Islam a bad religion.

Radical anything is bad for society.

Murders are lunatics and kill for any reason and will look for any reason.

🤣🤣🤣

OK, don't rub it in FFS!!!

I'm quite good at other things, honest!!!

I'll keep you guessing 😉

Yes, but I think Christianity is much more "active" (for want of a better word) in the US. In the UK, if you talk about Jesus people tend to look at you askance and start backing away carefully. It's a great way of getting rid of unwanted attention from males. Whereas in the US, the Church seems to be a much more important influence in the community.

Very true. But I'm just thinking out loud here: the one that does the damage (now, in this current era; religions tend to take it in turns!) is radical Islam.

I am anxious about the rise of anti-semitism in the UK and who might be pulling the strings.

I’m finding this discussion about medics and views interesting. I recently heard about a lady I know starting midwifery training. She is very racist to the point of telling family they should never talk to non white people, and also very anti-vax. I’m not saying she is incapable of care, I found it a surprising career choice, as I think it must be hard to reconcile views and job sometimes- so how do you recommend vaccines eg/ and how is treatment shaped by bias - perhaps separating the two is readily possible know - I’m sure that every medical practitioner has treated someone who they may potentially despise in normal life - she must think she can obviously.

I always think it’s interesting that it’s pretty much unthinkable to have a Prime Minister who talks about God in anything other than the most oblique terms. (Not that they shouldn’t follow whatever religion they like; it’s just individual religion and strength of belief or otherwise is traditionally more private here, I think)

Whereas in the US it’s pretty much unthinkable to have a President who doesn’t mention the Christian God frequently.

One of the first articles I read said he was British born.

Yes, there are some wrong'uns in all walks of life, including healthcare, unfortunately.

But not all of them wield the power of life and death, as a surgeon potentially does.

And being anti-vax etc, though concerning, isn't quite in the same league as rejoicing over the slaughter of Jewish people and framing it as some kind of divine mission 😬

(Edited for typos. Trying to eat fish & chips!!!!)

Im not even sure its about anti semitism, although it is if you're Jewish, I think its about anti UK values, what tolerance and integration and democracy stand for

Its about forcing group think because a lot of this you cant question.

Lots of Muslim communities in the UK I dont think would be described as radical, but neither is there an adoption of the UK way of life, what expectations are there for the girls in the family, what is getting involved in UK habits and norms, being within the whole community not just your ethnic and religious community. Its a very different outlook to when Carribean families or Indian/Bangladeshi families came and come to the UK

Why is that?

Perhaps its about the country of origin.

Amercia is an example of extremism. It was born out of extremists who wanted to create their own land because they felt persecuted in England (and some other countries). Its never really changed. Anti establishment, anti government, small state, highly religious. And dangerous a lot of the time.

For those bringing up hatred towards Muslims, hatred towards any community is never justified. That’s kind of the point with all these threads following the attack on the Jewish community yesterday. However, criticism of radical Islam is not the same. We need to discuss the hard issues.

Yes, it's very different from my childhood surrounded by West Indian and Indian families.

Yes, it's definitely "out there"! I have to remind myself sometimes that this is also the country that created The Simpsons.

My husband's a muslim (Pakistani) and he said the same as the home secretary - i.e. Jihad is not a real name. So no. Not that well known.

If you you consider the wars that have been waged over the last 25 years you could say the same about Western values. And while I expect you could easily distance those wars from your own version of Western values I imagine most Muslims, let alone anyone of a religious persuasion, could do the same with regard to atrocities committed in the name of their beliefs.

It's you that can't add up!