"Jihad": A few things don't add up...?

[Beachtastic]

I know it's early days and we don't have much info to go on about the killer at the Manchester synagogue. But this BBC news article is very confusing.

He's described as a "35-year-old British citizen of Syrian descent" who "was granted British citizenship in 2006 when he was around the age of 16" ... my maths is shit, but 2025 minus 2006 = 19...? Other articles says he was a minor when he was given citizenship.

Apparently he was "on police bail after being arrested on suspicion of rape at the time of the killings" but "was not charged with the offence."

His parents, understandably, have made a strong statement distancing themselves from his actions, but the article goes on to say:

A post on his father's Facebook page, which has been verified by the BBC, appears to praise the 7 October attack by Hamas.
... The post reads: "The scenes broadcast by the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades showing a group of fighters storming an occupation army camp with simple means, balloons and motorcycles, prove beyond any doubt that Israel is not here to stay.
"Men like these prove that they are Allah's men on earth, regardless of who leads them, they are the true compass for men confident in their victory, even if their resources are few."

It also says his father is a surgeon... and that "Jihad" was his birth name.

I'm not sure where to begin processing all this information, if it's true. Quite surprised to find it reported by the BBC to be honest.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0q7y72kppgo

I’ve just had a family member in hospital these past few weeks. There were only staff from the Middle East and Asia, doctors and nursing staff.
Everyone we had dealings with was amazing.
So no I am not kidding.

As a muslim I will say there is a massive difference in tone v the thread on a similar subject in AIBU. That one seems to whipping up frenzy to create a lynch mob.

I agree that my stupidity is mortifying, but I think there are useful discussions to be had on this difficult subject.

It seems plausible to me. Hard to say whether there is an intent to cause harm but the doctor in the case above (who has a lot of support) sees harm as justified.

The family, well his father, celebrated Hamas on October 7th. I'm not sure how genuine the family's statement is. Damage limitation?

I would think the authorities need to look into this. We cant have surgeons with extreme views operating on people. He should be suspended to allow an investigation into his online rantings. Why isn't he in Gaza using his skills there if he is such an advocate of the Palestinians and Hamas?

Except that he will have been protected and supported by bog standard people in his community. Not people you would have your eye on as extremists or radicals.

Normal, law abiding, reasonable sounding, nice next door neighbour, polite to your face community members. Who also happen to disagree with western values, tolerance, democracy but over and above all the irreligious and other religions and Jews in particular.

I wish extremists of all branches wouldn't be given air time. If you think killing anyone is acceptable then you have some sort of mental health problems. All this debate about the definition of jihad. These people are evil or unwell or even both.

Ignoring the fact that in islam, killing another human is strictly forbidden.

They are fringe extremists. There are approximately 2 billion Muslims in the world. Some do believe in murdering innocent people and have a very warped interpretation. It is the people not the faith.

The Quran does not endorse killing a person but condemns it, stating in Quran 5:32 that "whoever kills a person, it is as if he has killed all of humanity".

The Principle of Sanctity of Life
The Quran emphasizes the sacredness of human life, with the verse 5:32 (also known as Al-Ma'idah 5:32) drawing a powerful parallel between the unjustified killing of a single innocent person and the killing of all humanity. This highlights the severe consequence and grave sin associated with taking an innocent life.

Maybe you're not Jewish and therefore not at risk? Or maybe these doctors don't wear a badge to advertise their prejudice?

Or maybe you were lucky and had decent medical staff, doesn't mean that's true across the board.

There is so much whipping into a frenzy going on in all directions, I am sick of it!

I think part of the problem is that the UK is a secular society. We don't "get" religion at all, so for example Muslim is Muslim is Muslim.

It's really important I think to pinpoint where the problems lie. I would assume that peaceful Muslims are as appalled by radical Islam as anyone else.

Its pointless quoting that bit of the Quran, you might as well as why some Christians have waged war over the centuries when 'thou shalt not kill' is in the Bible

Its somewhat meaningless. We know that (many) religions are about being in charge, in control, converting others to your religion, having more power. You can only really do that if you rule by fear and kill people that dont agree with you

Islam is an aggressively proselytising religion in the way that hard core evangelical Christianity was back in the medieval ages (and some might say some quarters still are).

The Quran, and a Hadith, do call for killing Jews. Take this passage. I'll link to the article below

More specifically, the manifesto holds the teachings of the Quran responsible for the recent anti-Semitic attacks in France − the country with the largest Muslim and Jewish population in Europe − and strongly recommends that Muslims denounce the verses of the Quran they claim motivate Muslims to kill Jews. They also ask politicians and the French public to stop being politically correct and to admit that “Muslim anti-Semitism” is a more serious threat than Islamophobia.

Pathos.com

Yes, I remember just after 7 Oct watching a YouTube video of one of the attackers being interviewed by the IDF. He was asked, "Aren't you aware that these actions are proscribed by Islam?" (or words to that effect) and you could just see his face drop in an "Oh shit" sort of way. I almost felt sorry for him; he didn't seem the brightest penny, and was presumably living in abject poverty when Hamas promised him all manner of earthly and heavenly riches as a reward for his efforts.

Mahmood is a South Asian Muslim, it is not a common name amongst south asians. It is common in some Arab circles but it also means 'struggle' ie internal struggle.

I don't think it is as common now as it was 30 odd years ago.

I think this is what worries me. How can we, as a community, locate and deal with these bad apples?

Like the name Osama - it was very popular years ago but not so much now in my experience after the 9/11 attack.

This is an interesting article on Mohammed's treatment of Jews

Did you change your name for that post, or is it brilliant coincidence?! 😁

Let’s say his name was not intended to be what we associate with jihad these days. Still, the red flag is the dad’s views and that they are clearly anti Semitic. We have a culture of dangerous antisemitism as well as anti western beliefs. It’s not for nothing that the Jewish community have been scared for a long time.

Yup.

I also feel some people have taken this tragedy to further their own hatred against Muslims. It's kind of sick to use anothers trauma pain in this way

The trouble with religious texts is that they're all over the place. You can pretty much find anything in any of them. It's what people choose to live by that counts.

My dad bless him was brought up Welsh chapel and used to look forward to an argument with the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Thank you for sharing that. Interesting to read what is going on in France. The article also quotes the following;

To begin with, Muslims’ actions are often not motivated by the Quran.

Terrorists, who supposedly act in the name of Islam, are typically ignorant of the Quran

the real problem concerns the cherry picking and misinterpretation of certain verses about Jews while turning a blind eye to others that praise them.

The Quran, like the Torah, does not claim that all Jews are wrongdoers. Indeed it affirms the righteousness of both Jews and Christians

A leaked government intelligence report based on in-depth interviews revealed that these two were not exceptions; terrorists are usually poorly informed about the main teachings of Islam and do not regularly perform Islamic rituals. On the contrary, several them are drug-users, drink alcohol, eat pork and visit prostitutes. The report concluded that religiosity could prevent radicalization.

Yes. But what are we going to do about radical Islam? I am terrified of its noxious influence and actions, and worried for the future of the UK if we cannot clearly delineate it from the broad umbrella term "Muslim."

Not helped by Western loonies with a chip on their shoulder, eager to jump into the fight -- whether pro-Hamas or pro-Reform.

You are quoting biased text written by;

The Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs (JCFA) seeks to be the leading address, catalyst, and anchor securing a newer, stronger, and closer Middle East-Israel-U.S. alliance

We need to do what France has done by all accounts. Call it what it is. Dont be PC. Say what needs to be said

How many times has this come up, from terrorism where we dare not say Islamists are the main culprits of attacks, to grooming gangs where the nature and ferocity of how and why certain children are chosen to be abused is down to beliefs about Western girls.

But we mustnt say these things.