Thread 31 Starmer - September Rain

[DuncinToffee]

Pull up a chair for some friendly chit chat about politics and beyond

Taxes optional but greatly appreciated.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5399546-thread-30-starmer-magic-roundabouts?page=40&reply=146834602

No I don’t think legal advice absolves her and she’s going to have to pay, but ethics comes down to her intentions and did she act reasonably based on the advice? It’s wrongness is less important that the motives she had in doing it.

Worse for who though?

There was Sunak with a complicated investment portfolio, Zahawi paying a £5m fine, Hunt forgetting about 7 flats

The press was quite understanding then.

My guess is she will survive. Even the Spectator likes Rayner. The Tories are wrong; she’s well liked by the general public, and has her own left wing base in Labour. I mean certain sorts of Tories absolutely revile her but I don’t think they are enough to make her go.

Starmer won’t sack her. She survives.

I’m wearing a stripy jumper in FOUR shades of green and one of blue.

For us having to listen to their vile rhetoric.

I don't really want to see a conform/refcon alliance.

I think she’ll survive too. I hope that the relentless attacks will turn her into a political armadillo and make her impervious to them.

That will never happen while Farage owns Reform, you can rest easy there.

The Tories have deluded themselves it's a possibility thought, which makes me wonder if anyone there can read nowdays ?

However I suspect there are some people who would be more likely to vote Tory if they were not led by competent black woman, but an incompetent white man. They fact they are led by an incompetent mendacious self confessed criminal isn't really doing them any favours.

That's going to happen whoever is the leader though.

Not it's not.

E2A: The closest you could get is Tories standing down in some seats in the hope of a coalition with Reform. However I can't see the reverse working unless Farage was given cast iron written confirmation that in a coalition he would be at least deputy PM with a very clear portfolio. Which I can't see happening either.

Catching up with PMQs, good to see Starmer is having a go at Farage

"The honourable member for Clacton is not here... he's flown to America to badmouth and talkdown our country. And worse than that... he's gone there to lobby the Americans to impose sanctions. You cannot get more unpatriotic than that. It's a disgrace."

And agreeing with the SNP

"we had an [asylum] returns agreement with the whole of Europe. It was ripped up when we left the EU by people making promises" that were a fantasy

I've ordered a moss green jumper because I love a moss stitch in knitting - edged in moss stitch. I have a green dress with a flower background, plus a green shirt the same colour as Rayner's trousers.

Obviously that will be ignored, but it's nice it's in Hansard.

It is entirely possible to create a comms strategy that uses Farages parliamentary absence to leverage closer EU ties, and indeed anything that pisses on Reforms chips.

That said, it may be a better strategy to let him waste a lot of time with Trump ...

it may be a better strategy to let him waste a lot of time with Trump ...

Particularly as Trump won’t even remember he exists tomorrow.

He missed his speaking slot due to being stuck in traffic

sympathetic response from Lib Dem leader Ed Davey towards Angela Rayner's predicament.

“I understand it is normally the role of opposition leaders to jump up and down and call for resignations – as we’ve seen plenty of from the Conservatives already.

“Obviously if the ethics advisor says Angela Rayner has broken the rules, her position may well become untenable.

“But as a parent of a disabled child, I know the thing my wife and I worry most about is our son’s care after we have gone, so I can completely understand and trust that the deputy Prime Minister was thinking about the same thing here.

“Perhaps now is a good time to talk about how we look after disabled people and how we can build a more caring country.”

Asking a bit too much of HoC there.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/03/justice-secretary-suggests-jenrick-risked-collapse-of-trial-with-tweet

Charlie Brooker once said (around 2016) something along the lines of "Soesn't it seem to be that that cunts are all rolling 6s now ?"

However that couldn't last. And it's amusing to watch Farage have to fawn over Trump for a scrap from the table even as Trump is either under pressure from MAGA, or the courts, and - even worse - capable of tariffing the UK for some perceived slight against the US.

On which note it's a bit nerdy, but Tesco have just launched £100 million claim against what is effectively a US supplier deciding it didn't like the T&Cs of a company it bought. I can see Trump tariffing the UK if the UK court reaches the "wrong" decision.

https://www.theregister.com/2025/09/03/tesco_sues_vmware_broadcom_computacenter/

Well can't really say fairer than that, can you ?

I am well disposed towards Ed Davey in almost exactly the way I am not towards anyone from Reform or the Tories.

https://bsky.app/profile/danneidle.bsky.social/post/3lxwlsyqf2b2m

An explanation from Dan Neidle.

"Here's the thing. If you're buying a house and everything is simple, you can ask your conveyancer how much stamp duty to pay.

If things are complex - e.g. there's a trust - this is a very bad idea.

If Ms Rayner just asked her conveyancer then that was a mistake."

As far as HMRC go, for an individual, its due care.

In HMRC’s view it is reasonable to expect a person who encounters a transaction or other event with which they are not familiar to take care to find out about the correct tax treatment or to seek appropriate advice
If after that the person is still unsure they should draw attention to the entry and the uncertainty when they send the return or document to us. In these circumstances the person will have taken reasonable care to draw our attention to the point and if they are wrong they will not have been carelessly so

Rayner took advice, she therefore had no such uncertainty......

Seems it all comes down to the fact her son is under 18, therefore she has a interest in the property.....

https://bsky.app/profile/danneidle.bsky.social/post/3lxwjfjhvzb2v

Also Neidle thinks category 4

When we bought our house (bungalow) it was March 2002 - just after Gordon Brown had scrapped Stamp Duty for our "deprived" area. However the initial contact for the sale started in October 2001 - before that.

When the lawyer sent us their invoice, it had stamp duty. Obviously this triggered a phone call where when I said that the postcode was in the stamp duty relief scheme, I got the reply "What's that ?". I had to direct them to the .gov.uk site with the details.

Add to that their total failure to spot the property had an outstanding ground rent, and the fact that when this bit us 2 years later it was "nuffing to do with us guv. honest", and my opinion on lawyers actually went lower than when they were clients for the company I worked for.

(Even now I hum "You'll never find a halfway decent lawyer" to the tune of "You'll never find a nice South African" from Spitting Image #1.0

So my natural sympathies here are with AR. This could easily happen to anyone.

I can hear Nigel Tunfel saying "It's a fine line between stupid and clever"

I think the important word here is IF.

I do wish they would stop speculating.