Thread 31 Starmer - September Rain

[DuncinToffee]

Pull up a chair for some friendly chit chat about politics and beyond

Taxes optional but greatly appreciated.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5399546-thread-30-starmer-magic-roundabouts?page=40&reply=146834602

I really think Kemi should be allowed a good 5 to 6 years to bed in as leader of the Conservatives to undo the damage of Johnson, Truss and Sunak.

More Vic Reeves on Reeves and Mortimer show.

It won't happen.

As @TokyoSushi has said, if she has solid evidence in black and white that this was the case, then she has a chance.

If not, then she has to go, because this will dog her and Labour until the end of time.

I feel very, very sad saying that as I like and admire her. For her career to end like this is horrible.

What would HMRC do if a little person paid tax because of demonstrably incorrect advice?

Make them pay up and probably fine them, I would imagine.

No, keep Badenoch. Jenrick and Philps would be so much worse.

@Notonthestairs I agree.
I do believe her.
The hatred for and determination to go after Angela Rayner in much of the media
truly sickens me.

Well she’s outlined her defence! Let it go to the ethics watchdog. It will come down to whether she was entitled to rely on the advice and whether the advice was reasonable. I don’t think she is done in yet.

Nor do I. I’m so sorry this has happened because the scrutiny of her is relentless. It’s very sad that the reason for the complexity of her tax affairs is because she has a disabled son who she’s doing her utmost to look after.

It does seem wrong to hound someone because they took legal advice which turned out to be wrong. I hope if that transpires to be the reason people will back off. I think it’s unreasonable to expect her to get two different sets of advice just because of who she is and what the press are like.

She will need to publish this advice & where it came from? but i think she will end up going, otherwise it will just go on and on, this isn't going to go away.

Rayner looked genuinely upset.

Badenoch showing understanding and compassion... not.... as usual, stinks considering her own lying.

I believe HMRC will accept incorrect tax paid & not fine if advice is from a reputable source ie a tax advisor.

I suppose the other thing is that she now I assume has to pay it, so a load of hassle, maybe losing her job and a £40K bill...

Sounds like a way forward.

It does seem wrong to hound someone because they took legal advice which turned out to be wrong.

Funny that to all intents and purposes you can't sue a legal professional for incorrect advice (BTDTGTTS).

It is unreasonable, but it is sensible.

If you are part of this Labour government, you need to more than certain that anything you do is absolutely watertight. Politics is a dirty game.

Lots of teal here but I've gone off turquoise 😂

I wore a lot of emerald green in my yoof but strong colours like that don't work for me any more now my hair is lighter and complexion ruddier.

Ironically it’s blue all the way for me. It suits me better than any other colour with silver hair and blue eyes. I’m sure my neighbours are convinced I’m a Tory!

But surely taking legal advice does that? A qualified professional tells you what to do, you do it - what more is reasonable to ask?
Obviously if it turns out this isn’t what happened then it’s different.

AFAIK, anything that you submit to HMRC re your tax affairs, is your own responsibility. I’m fairly sure that you have to sign to that effect when submitting a tax return. So I’d imagine - if this is the case - that the same must apply to AR. As sad as that is.

I agree @cardibach .
She has a massive job, she has a complex and loving role as a mum and she endures such scorn from the media.
I don't know why Labour should be expected to scrutinise, scrutinise and scrutinise again everything they do, even when they have taken the advice available.
I am heartened to see Sir Keir offering that wee supportive gesture at PMQ's today and as long as she does the right thing in the light of what has happened now , (which she has)
I think he will have her back.

But surely taking legal advice does that? A qualified professional tells you what to do, you do it - what more is reasonable to ask?

I am pretty sure there are some situations where you are still personally liable, regardless of what advice you took. Even if it was paid for legal advice.

We've already established that lawyers aren't liable for incorrect advice.

If HMRC do accept that advice can be incorrect and generally allow the taxpayer to correct the account without further action, then I don't see why AR should not be treated as any of us would. It's sub optimal, but at least no special treatment.

It would be the special treatment that makes it a resigning offence.

I don't know why Labour should be expected to scrutinise, scrutinise and scrutinise again everything they do, even when they have taken the advice available.

To be fair they did take over from one of the most transparent, competent and honest administrations of the 21st century.

😂

@SerendipityJane yes a hard act to follow with their strict adherence to the Nolan Principles and their strict Ethics Advisers

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/668bffa2d9d35187868f4667/11229_Tax_and_NICs_Guide_Ministers_KJ_v2_20240705.pdf

Does this clarify matters? Point 5 is capital gains tax.