Lucy Letby - have you changed your mind thread 4

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

With thanks to the original poster @kittybythelighthouse and @Tidalwave for continuing the discussion.

”You need the hands-on experience. Letby was one of the only band 5 QIS l think? With staffing issues, she might have been the best placed nurse to care for any given baby.”

As I understand it she was sometimes the best qualified on shift to care for the sickest babies, which is why they were assigned to her. The unit had a poor skill mix according to the RCPCH report.

Have you ever seen the below video from a former COCH Advanced Neonatal Nurse Practitioner? They fired all their senior nurses a couple of years before Lucy Letby started working there (she became permanent/full-time staff in 2012) . They upgraded to a LNU in 2015, which is when the death spike happened, but did not rehire any senior nurses.

By the way, have you ever worked on a ward that had a pseudomonas outbreak but not shut down to take care of the issue?

You could pretty much say the same for all of you guys except coming from the opposite direction. Has Shoo Lee uttered anything but the truth? It's like you're forgetting there was a 10 month trial and ALL that could possibly be covered was, including most of what Shoo Lee and his panel have come up with.

All of this just proves why going into healthcare is a serial killers dream. For those of us that don't want them walking the streets and working around vulnerable people, we don't need "video evidence of someone seeing her kill a child" to believe the circumstantial evidence proves guilt. Not just once, but time and time again. Because we're more than able to join the dots.

Ffs Firefly. The fact is that it wasn’t big news internationally until after the international panel press conference. It’s not my flipping fault.

“You're just starting to sound a bit deluded now if you think this case wasn't newsworthy elsewhere until Shoo Lee piped up.”

Fgs. In international press it was covered only in short wire style summaries until after the international press conference, when outlets like The New York Times, Le Monde, Der Spiegel, and Al Jazeera ran longer explanatory pieces. This gave it more sustained global visibility. It simply wasn’t major news to the rest of the world before then.

“How do you even know?!”

Jesus farking Christ. Research Firefly! You should try it. The fact that you appear to think it’s impossible to know this speaks VOLUMES.

“You really do talk a lot about things you can't possibly have any idea about”

Oh yeah? Like what? Go on.

“Or you're just basing all of this on your one relative who happens to live under a rock...”

I am not and she doesn’t. But I’m starting to think you must do.

So basically you don't want me diagnosing LL from my armchair so you're going to diagnose me and see how I like it? 😆I said I wouldn't be surprised not that I definitely have it. But how's about this-I have EUPD and Lucy has narcissism with psychopathic traits?

Now that we've got that out of the way-are you aware that this is exactly how you're also coming across? It's only because you've got your mates to back you up that you can't see it in yourself. I genuinely genuinely have no problem admitting when I'm wrong or changing my viewpoint.

It does want take long to do a couple of searches to see that thd only coverage was the ‘breaking news’ kind whrn yhd verdict was given - before sbd after the at things were pretty dark on the world stage for the case.

If @Firefly1987 had read Aviv’s piece they’d know that it only came to her attention because she read about it in the British press.

@Kittybythelighthouse right so according to you, all of the world outside the UK barely registered there being a killer nurse of babies until some panel got together and said "maybe there weren't any murders"-and suddenly the world took notice-about a case they had zero interest in to begin with? Sounds plausible.

No one diagnosed you.

You did that yourself. You offered up that you thought you havd Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder.

Pointing out the typical and diagnostic features of a diagnosis is not giving a diagnosis.

According to Whats available online, if you took the time to go and find out gif yourself.

You are really trying my patience now. I’ll tell you what, you go and research it instead of sitting there refusing to accept the truth just because it doesn’t fit your nonsensical bespoke of the truth. It wasn’t huge news in the rest of the world no matter how much you think it should have been.

It certainly wasn’t anywhere near as big as the deaths of huge international figures like Kurt Cobain or Princess Diana, which is the actual metric under discussion.

And yes, an international panel of experts of this calibre, from senior positions in the world’s best teaching and research hospitals, getting together to prove that there were no murders in a serial killer case is actually quite something to everyone except you. Are you really this sheltered?

“Lucy has narcissism with psychopathic traits”

Based on what? There is NO diagnosis of any such thing. A diagnosis from a distance, paid for by the Daily Fail, doesn’t count and has many equally strong opposite views counting against it anyway.

“I genuinely genuinely have no problem admitting when I'm wrong or changing my viewpoint.”

I just fell off my chair. ARE KIDDING?!

Okay good one. You’ve obviously been trolling us all along. Touché 👌🏻

No @Firefly1987
You were the one who said you wouldn't be surprised if you had it.
I was just pointing out that that's a feature of it.

Perhaps you don't have it at all or your extremely rigid views and black and white thinking are unrelated.

It doesn't change the fact that you have them.
It's been extremely obvious across all of these threads, I noticed the behaviour but at no point would I ever have assumed BPD/EUPD from the threads, but you said it and I pointed out that that was a feature.

Now that we've got that out of the way-are you aware that this is exactly how you're also coming across? It's only because you've got your mates to back you up that you can't see it in yourself.

Talk about gaslighting 😂

As for you not diagnosing LL from your armchair, it's clear that even experts have very mixed views on her, even when starting from a presumption of guilt, yet you're on here saying it's textbook serial killer behaviour and acting like you know better than everyone else. It doesn't even bother me if you want to do your armchair diagnosis, the issue is that you state it like it's fact 😂

@Kittybythelighthouse Based on what? There is NO diagnosis of any such thing. A diagnosis from a distance, paid for by the Daily Fail, doesn’t count and has many equally strong opposite views counting against it anyway.

If there was a diagnosis you would say it doesn't count anyway, so doesn't make much of a difference. It's like how people can predict what Meghan will do next. People can see when someone is "playing the victim" and has zero empathy. Except gullible people-the types they prey on. It's important to be aware of these types of people. But yeah I'm sure you still believe your Nigerian prince is genuine as well 🙄

I just fell off my chair. ARE KIDDING?!
Okay good one. You’ve obviously been trolling us all along. Touché 👌🏻

Have any of you EVER tried to see things from my POV, and why I think she's guilty? No, it has never happened. Not once!

Do you want to know when I changed my mind and had to admit I got it wrong? Rolf Harris. Surely he was just a sweet old man right? WRONG, big time. He was a predator. But I didn't want to believe that at first, surely the allegation/s (can't remember how many there were to begin with) were just malicious. But no it was true. I had to admit I got it wrong and I challenged my bias that someone who appears to just be a sweet old man might actually not be. Now when did you ever admit you got it wrong?

Talk about gaslighting 😂

OK please point out where you tried to understand things from my perspective then. I'll wait.

I do understand things from your perspective, You find the evidence convincing. I have repeatedly said that.

I just don't hold the same opinion about the evidence. To me it was not convincing.

You seem to be mixing up understanding your perspective with agreeing with your perspective. The 2 things are not the same.

Have any of you EVER tried to see things from my POV, and why I think she's guilty? No, it has never happened. Not once!

@Firefly1987
You are just completely ignoring the fact that we have already considered your POV at the start, it is the same as the prosecutions point of view, we have already considered it and then considered it again in comparison to the new expert opinions etc that were coming out. It's 2 years down the line now, and over a year since the New Yorker came out and more and more experts have started to put their names to their opinions publicly, and it's like each time you want us to keep going over and over things from the prosecutions case that we have already considered and looked at 5000 times.

You seem to believe that just because we don't agree with you that that means we haven't considered your POV, which isn't the case.

We know why you think she's guilty, you have repeatedly stated it, and because you haven't convinced any of us or got us to agree with you you then twist that to mean that we haven't tried to see things from your POV.

@Firefly1987the only person here who refuses to accept others perspectives is you.

You refuse to accept tgat others feel the case needs to be revisited abx so you keep jumping in (and even hoing to other forums asking for ideas for counter arguments) bevause you do not want to accept that others don’t think like you.

I completely accept you belueve she’s guilty beyond a reasonabld doubt and that she doesn’t deserve the access to justice afforded to every other citizen in the UK

You haven't convinced me either, I'm not sure why that makes me the only one prone to black and white thinking or not seeing your POV.

Gosh I'm surprised Moritz and Coffey didn't use him in the latest Panorama programme.

You return over and over with the same arguments instead of accepting that others think differently, leading peopld to re-explain theif position as Infinitum - around and around. This is the very definition of someone who refuses to accept someone thinks differently to them.

You can’t see that can you?

I'm not trying to convince you though 🤔

You have black and white thinking because you have decided your opinion is the only right and correct one to the point that you can't grasp that it would be in any way possible for someone to genuinely have a different opinion despite knowing the evidence unless they......and here you can insert any of your ridiculous theories that you have repeatedly stated throughout all of the threads.

I'm not hopping to other forums asking for ideas, you don't even know that's me? I post on both but I haven't asked for counter arguments. You do realise other people read this forum and read tattle but just might not want to post in a place where five people will automatically jump on them for saying they think she's guilty, but would still like to know what the counter arguments are.

I completely accept you belueve she’s guilty beyond a reasonabld doubt and that she doesn’t deserve the access to justice afforded to every other citizen in the UK

Never said that. She can go through the proper channels. I disagree with her slimy lawyer launching a PR campaign to try and undermine the justice system.

Okie dokie.

Never said that. She can go through the proper channels. I disagree with her slimy lawyer launching a PR campaign to try and undermine the justice system.

I’m trying to figure out what a slimy PR campaign might look like. Would it be making random, emotive, derogatory, and unasserted claims, without evidence, online? No, I’m thinking he might be trying to use the expert evidence and statistical arguments that have been raised. Perhaps that’s just me though.

Well one of us is wrong, that's just a fact. We can't both be right. I believe you've done the same re deciding you're opinion is the only right and correct one, but you'll never admit it. I mean how many times can one of you say "you've already been told all this" as if everything you state is FACT! It isn't, it's your opinion just the same as mine.

There's a defence lawyer out there claiming Rolf is innocent.