Do the people being arrested for Palestine Action not know about the sledgehammer attack?

[noblegiraffe]

With 500-odd people having been arrested for expressing support for proscribed terrorist organisation Palestine Action, I'm just baffled as to why they are willing to get a criminal record which could bar them from travel to the USA and work in education for an organisation whose members attacked police officers with a sledgehammer.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/disturbing-sledgehammer-attack-police-during-9463071

Regardless of whether this group should be proscribed as a terrorist organisation, surely no one should look at that and think 'yeah, that's a group I think should be allowed to continue to do its thing, attack a few more police officers with sledgehammers, that's the hill I'm willing to die on.'

Wouldn't you think 'I'm not sure if they should be proscribed as terrorists, but given the sledgehammer attack, I'm not going to turn up with banners in support and be arrested for them, I'll just get on with protesting the genocide instead because that's a better cause'.

So do they not know about the violence? Or do they not care and are willing to support violent organisations?

(note this is not a thread for debating Gaza, I want to talk about British people who are absolutely legally allowed to protest genocide but aren't allowed to support proscribed terrorist organisations - which is also not allowed on MN).

I think the protests are showing the Government up for what they really are.

Spoken like a true authoritarian. As we saw during covid, many people will happily volunteer to tyranise others. Let the pensioners rot in jail, that'll learn 'em!

I'm sure starmer is considering it as we speak.

This is my view. By all means rally/petition the government from a pro Palestine position but knowingly - provocatively - stating you support a proscribed terrorist group is crossing the line.

Incompetent? If they were anything else then I might be more worried about stuff like this. Although it could be a cunning plan I guess and Starmer is actually playing 4D chess.

Well then they have got what they wanted. They are probably pleased with the publicity.

Maybe they need to set up a proxy group for those who dont want to be arrested.

’Support for Palestine Action Supporters’ 😂

Oh it certainly could get a lot worse. Starmer is a weasel and isn't scared to throw his weight around. He's a bureaucratic bot and they're often the most dangerous.

No they’re not. They’re supporting a banned group of people operating in an aggressive and threatening manner on our streets illegally.

But I think you know that…….

Well I hope he is. It certainly worked for the Southport rioters.

Don’t be silly. Look them up. The answer is very, very obvious…..

I am Jewish and I think it is a scary day for free speech when you can potentially be sent to jail for 14 years for holding up a placard with words on.

I am all for proscribing Palestine Action and their supporters. But support should mean things like finance, weapons and providing safe houses for actual terrorists.

A few misguided middle aged middle class people holding up placards should be left well alone.

(And it will hard to prove they meant the proscribed organisation rather than the literal meaning of the words. I can see a lot of arguments over the significance of whether the words were capitalised or not).

Not really. Have you seen what the other proscribed groups are and the crimes they've carried out?

‘Gross abuse of state power’: defiance grows over UK ban on Palestine protest group | Protest | The Guardian https://share.google/y9rEl2aj9ZqXFCEa0

It's actually laughable that the RAF can't secure their premises and property also. They're the military. Duh.

I genuinely believe that very few protesters are genuinely concerned about suffering in Gaza or anywhere. None of the protests highlight the many, many Gazan's who are trying to protest against Hamas and being tortured and murdered.
Nobody is protesting the actual ethnic cleansing of Druze in Syria, or the manmade starvation in Yemen.

For those reasons I believe it's all political and the fact that people are now coming out in support of Palestine Action (and at other protests this weekend we saw posters saying 'I support Hamas') is part of that political movement stirred up by bad actors to divide and destabilise.

Laughable being the victim of a terrorist organisations actions?

That’s quite some take. Do you also blame those massacred on Oct 7th for not being more careful too?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/three-groups-to-be-proscribed

Planes were vandalised during a break in. It's reasonable to assume that MOD premises are secure is it not?

What the actual.......?!!!
It is a disgusting accusation to make the leap that @noblegiraffe supports murder on the basis of them not supporting a proscribed terror organisation.

And this is why many people totally ignore the pro-Palestinian movement - it is too quick to jump to heinous accusations based on zero evidence or knowledge

I suspect many think sabotaged might be a more appropriate word than vandalised, but that's probably another nettle the CPS won't want to grasp.

As for the security set up at Brize, we know it was p poor but I'd hate to think anyone is suggesting one defence for PAs actions was that the RAF was inviting the attack.

The trouble is that it's more than "just a bit of paint":

Yvette Cooper thanked police for their work handling Palestine rights protests across the UK on Saturday, saying there had been a "very small number of people whose actions crossed the line into criminality".

She defended the banning of Palestine Action, which she said was based on "strong security advice following serious attacks the group has committed" as well as "plans and ideas for further attacks, the details of which cannot yet be publicly reported due to ongoing legal proceedings".

"Many people may not yet know the reality of this organisation, but the assessments are very clear - this is not a non-violent organisation. UK national security and public safety must always be our top priority."

I doubt we will be party to the information behind the decisions made to protect our national security. Otherwise, think about it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8de6rq37v5o

Not quite, being charged may be enough to mean you require a visa rather than an esta.
And given how they treat regular holidaymakers, I would guess any mention of Palestine or terror charges would see you on the next plane home.

from unlock.org

• Anybody travelling to the US for less than 90 days will be able to travel under the Visa Waiver Programme (VWP). However, if you’ve been arrested or convicted of certain offences, you are ineligible to travel under the VWP and will need to apply to the US Embassy for a visa.

OP asked me a direct question about whether I supported violence despite saying twice that I did not. And I do not and have never said I "support Gaza". I support not killing civilians and children. So OP can answer my perefctly reasonable question. I didn't ask her whether she supported Palestine Action. I asked if she supported the killing of civilians and children.

And until she answers that I won't be responding again, because I see you.

She is free to say that she does not. Her posts on the subject of Gaza have never been entirely clear so I look forward to her clarifying that she does not support the murder of civilians and children.

And I hate to burst your bubble but "pro-Palestinian" is not the same thing as opposing the murder of civilians. There are thousands of Israeli's who agree with me. Are they "pro-Palestinian"?

These issues are all much more complicated than your monochrome dialogues allow for. People must be one thing or the other. That is not the real world.

In the context of this thread, regarding killing civilians and children, what do you make of Palestine Action [Group] (to all intents and purposes, they are the same thing) organising the first London "pro-Palestinian" rally on 7 October (for the following weekend)? Does that date ring any bells? Does it give any hints as to their true intentions?

I'm not having a go at you personally, by the way - a few years ago, I might easily have thought of this conflict in terms of oppressor and underdog. Indeed, I used to consider Israel's security measures rather draconian, until I realised why they needed them in place.

So you don’t think they deserve to be treated as a terrorist organisation, based on what they’ve done? I’m sure there are many groups who are far worse, but I’m also sure there are groups who are not nearly as bad. They meet the criteria of a terrorist organisation, who present a significant threat to the citizens of the UK. Therefore, as far as I’m concerned, they absolutely deserve the label.

But OP has already said this is not another Palestine vs Israel thread on the Gaza situation. It’s about supporting the Palestine Action group, so she doesn’t have to respond to your question. And I imagine if she did, we would be back down that rabbit hole again of Gaza and Hamas. A topic which has dozens of posts all repeating the same thing, over and over again.