Lack of range on this forum

[AguNwaanyi]

I am relatively new to posting on here but one thing that's stood out is a complete lack of range when discussing a variety of topics. Not everyone, but enough for it to be noticeable for me.

Take that recent £100k salary one which was littered with accusations of jealousy, laziness and entitlement to their money 😆. There were some reasonable counterpoints about how the salary doesn't stretch how it should and isn't exactly rich - fair enough - but some of the takes were just defensive when people raised wider points on capitalism, nepotism and societal structures impact how we progress. They took it as dismissing any hard work on their part. One person even brought in a great point about desirability politics in the workplace and the barriers/opportunities that stem from that but was basically told they needed to work on their self esteem (mind you, the person who responded this had the nerve to talk about my intelligence 😏).

There was one talking about teenagers skimpy clothing "these" days (already a-historical when you look at the evolution of style and attitudes towards respectability in dressing through the ages; conservative dressing has always been relative) and it went quickly to rape apologist rhetoric, rather than distinguishing between challenging hyper-sexualisation vs empowerment and abuse, which is a different category and nothing to do with how we dress.

I see this lack of nuance when discussing behaviour in children and adults. Given how many parents are on here it's shocking how many appear wilfully ignorant of child development stages (and a completely disregard for children as people generally, but that's a different conversation). Tantrums are seen as a sign of bad parenting or "naughty children". Teenagers with challenging behaviour are brats and other derogatives. When a young person or even adult does something wrong and that wrongdoing can be tied to a previous trauma or environmental circumstance, there is no interest in digging into what wider patterns we see and they believe if you do this you are trying to excuse the behaviour rather than understand it. Basic critical thinking gets eyerolls and called "woke nonsense".

And I am not just talking about people who I don't agree with. It's one thing to have a different take and ideology, and still apply range. And this isn't me thinking I'm smarter than everyone either (although if that's anyone's takeaway I will leave that with them). Not knowing something isn't the same as being stubbornly obtuse.

Anyone else feel this way? Feel free to ask me to clarify anything that isn't clear.

(I believing thinking someone isn't intelligent can be)

What does this mean? I’ve read it numerous times but I don’t think I’m intelligent enough to figure it out!

Yes, dear. Everyone on here is thick and should work on their critical thinking skills to be more like you.

There’s plenttttty of range on here if you know how to read between the lines, and see what’s not said as much as what is. Get over yourself.

I do worry that if I spend too much time on here, I will somehow become one of these mumsnetters with overtly ridged opinions ( I try not to go on too much) It's a bit of an echo chamber - and really doesn't help one become more open minded

See @Ontherocksthisyear I find it really hard to understand how you experience MN as an echo chamber. I see it as the very opposite. There is huge diversity of views on here, and that can be challenging. I am appalled by some of the commonly held views on here. But there is nearly always challenge on threads on any subject. The nearest you get to an ' echo chamber' is the specialist boards, but even they are not. The Feminists boards have TRAs come on to engage in argument. The Religion and Philosophy Board gets atheists arguing with the religious. And here's the thing. You can use MN to get you out of your own echo chamber by seeking out boards you know will have people holding views different from the ones you currently hold Its a great place for expanding your knowledge of diversity of opinion and thought, even if that can be discomforting.

Isn't it just!
They do say you learn something new every day, today I have learnt that I'm part of a MN echo chamber. All of whom are bitter, simmering with rage and quite thick to boot.

This really is just a goady-arse thread dressed up in fluffier language, isn’t it?

Thanks for the examples, although they some are more related to structure of argument, which isn't quite what I am talking about. I was also asking for what this would look like in terms of how this thread would have been phrased different; I already do some of the things you have said when actually in other threads, although mind I am not only specifically talking about replies to me.

I have been told several times now that if the forum doesn't suit me I could just leave but this also applies to this thread. If people don't like what I am saying or think it is incorrect, silly, etc they are also free to ignore it, it it seems ironic to be hearing this from many who don't appear to be applying their own advice.

I’ve been here 17 years and I agree with you in a lot of ways. There are some truly incredible minds on here and their wisdom has guided me on so many occasions over the years. There are also posters with a razor sharp wit who make me laugh on a regular basis. But I do agree there can be a lack of nuance in some people’s take on subjects. Having said all that it’s the best forum I’ve come across for bringing women together to discuss important subjects and that deserves some credit.

The problem is, this isn’t a curated space. It’s more like a discussion in a pub. There will be a loud bloke to keeps talking over everyone else, possibly about a different subject. There will be a diehard socialist/anarchist/entrepreneur sticking to their ideology in the absence of all
evidence to support it. There will be a woman who gets argumentative after a drink, and she’s had three. There will be someone who just wants to know where you got your lipstick and whether you’re single. And there will be a few people who are interested in exploring the subject of discussion.

And…. It’s an ever changing cast. All the people @MrsTerryPratchett has explained sentencing to are in a different pub tonight, so she’s got to do it again for tonight’s cast.

Still wondering what you’re hoping to achieve with this thread?

Sorry, your complaint is about the lack of range yet you think people who disagree with you should just not engage with you??

I was not saying you should leave. More making the point that if this forum does not suit your needs, you would be better off finding one that does, rather than railing against the nature of this place.

Advising someone to leave an activity that does not serve them is entirely different from engaging with someone in a discussion they have chosen to initiate in a discussion forum. You can surely see that.

Given how judgemental you are about everyone else, it's a surprise that you are still here.

So true!

Not only did I not say that, your first sentence makes me unsure you get what I mean about lack of range.

I haven't said this forum doesn't suit my needs either. Making a observation that isn't praise doesn't equate "not getting my needs". But by that rationale, people who are heated this thread exists (not you but a few others posting) can also be told to leave an activity that doesn't serve them. I mentioned I have been told several times I can leave now because that wasn't only addressed to you. You are engaging in a discussion but other dissenters are not.

If I am judgemental then I am definitely in good company on here.

Forgive me, but I still can’t really understand what you’re saying or what you want from this thread @AguNwaanyi

From your OP, where you say "one thing that's stood out is a complete lack of range when discussing a variety of topics"

You go on to give this as an example:

Take that recent £100k salary one which was littered with accusations of jealousy, laziness and entitlement to their money 😆. There were some reasonable counterpoints about how the salary doesn't stretch how it should and isn't exactly rich - fair enough - but some of the takes were just defensive when people raised wider points on capitalism, nepotism and societal structures impact how we progress. They took it as dismissing any hard work on their part. One person even brought in a great point about desirability politics in the workplace and the barriers/opportunities that stem from that but was basically told they needed to work on their self esteem (mind you, the person who responded this had the nerve to talk about my intelligence 😏).

…which sounds like there were many different perspectives being put forward, so I’m puzzled as to why you think there’s a lack of range.

I wonder what your friend groups looks like IRL. Possibly a little homogenous. Because thinking that MN lacks nuance, range and knowledge compared to, you know, people, is strange.

So what exactly is your point. That you are 10 times cleverer than everyone else. OK then.

The pub analogy is a useful perspective; thank you.

No, I don't get what you mean by lack of range as you have not been clear on that. You are not using the word within its understood meaning.

You state you don't mean diversity of views, you mean lack of critical analysis but when you are given examples of how to exemplify this, you state that this is not what you mean either.

Lets fact it, it basically boils down to you deciding that people who don't see things the way that you do are a bit lacking. The examples you give are just people having different perspectives from you - they are perfectly reasonable different perspectives - but you seem annoyed that posters are not instantly swayed by arguments that you agree with.

As other posters have noted, what you are hoping to get from this thread is a also unclear.

Some posters are certainly more successful than OP at making their points concisely, clearly and succinctly, that's for sure.

I am using the word within an understood meaning. It may be you just haven't come across this use before, or maybe I am being unclear; either way it's why I said people can ask for clarifications.

The examples I have given are not just about people disagreeing, they are about people refusing to understand wider contexts to a situation, or acknowledge it's intersections, apply empathy, seek information on a subject, or critical engage with a perspective. You can do all this and still come up with a take that I or anyone else will disagree with.

Believing women are sexually harassed because they wear revealing clothing is not a perfectly reasonably perspective. We have pedagogical evidence to show tantrums in children is linked to their brain development. The former especially, is not a perfectly reasonable view to have, either.

In this thread alone, I have responded to a few people who have disagreed with me, offering perspectives I have admitted I may not have considered and thanked them for it, so this idea I am just mad I am not swaying others towards my views doesn't add up.

I asked a question and wanted to hear what others have to say, which is more-or-less what's happening.

Goodness me. I only popped in for a large Pinot.

Basically this.

or you know where the door is. If you don't like MN there's no obligation to stay.

I am using the word within an understood meaning. It may be you just haven't come across this use before

This is getting better and better 🍿

I am using the word within an understood meaning. It may be you just haven't come across this use before, or maybe I am being unclear

Do you know the meaning of the word ‘patronising’ then?