Lack of range on this forum

[AguNwaanyi]

I am relatively new to posting on here but one thing that's stood out is a complete lack of range when discussing a variety of topics. Not everyone, but enough for it to be noticeable for me.

Take that recent £100k salary one which was littered with accusations of jealousy, laziness and entitlement to their money 😆. There were some reasonable counterpoints about how the salary doesn't stretch how it should and isn't exactly rich - fair enough - but some of the takes were just defensive when people raised wider points on capitalism, nepotism and societal structures impact how we progress. They took it as dismissing any hard work on their part. One person even brought in a great point about desirability politics in the workplace and the barriers/opportunities that stem from that but was basically told they needed to work on their self esteem (mind you, the person who responded this had the nerve to talk about my intelligence 😏).

There was one talking about teenagers skimpy clothing "these" days (already a-historical when you look at the evolution of style and attitudes towards respectability in dressing through the ages; conservative dressing has always been relative) and it went quickly to rape apologist rhetoric, rather than distinguishing between challenging hyper-sexualisation vs empowerment and abuse, which is a different category and nothing to do with how we dress.

I see this lack of nuance when discussing behaviour in children and adults. Given how many parents are on here it's shocking how many appear wilfully ignorant of child development stages (and a completely disregard for children as people generally, but that's a different conversation). Tantrums are seen as a sign of bad parenting or "naughty children". Teenagers with challenging behaviour are brats and other derogatives. When a young person or even adult does something wrong and that wrongdoing can be tied to a previous trauma or environmental circumstance, there is no interest in digging into what wider patterns we see and they believe if you do this you are trying to excuse the behaviour rather than understand it. Basic critical thinking gets eyerolls and called "woke nonsense".

And I am not just talking about people who I don't agree with. It's one thing to have a different take and ideology, and still apply range. And this isn't me thinking I'm smarter than everyone either (although if that's anyone's takeaway I will leave that with them). Not knowing something isn't the same as being stubbornly obtuse.

Anyone else feel this way? Feel free to ask me to clarify anything that isn't clear.

I do like a newbie come and tell us we're doing a crap job. Ticks off the month.

What I don't get is why people want to moan so much. There are a zillion other message boards out there. One of them might suit.

We're not doing Internet chat right? For shame.

Be the change you want to see, @AguNwaanyi.

I do think you come across as thinking you’re cleverer than other posters, and that’s why people are offended, hence triggered and projecting. Putting that back on posters rather than owning that you’ve insulted people is showing your own lack of depth.

However, I know the frustration. Every time certain topics come up, sentencing is one, where I know a little and many others don’t, it is annoying to have to write the same essay no one reads again. I’d rather that than have an echo chamber of people. Firstly, and most importantly because I don’t learn anything or challenge my views. Secondly, because no one else does either.

I do agree with you OP, also the responses to this thread seem to show a lack of understanding at the points you are making. As expected.

I do worry that if I spend too much time on here, I will somehow become one of these mumsnetters with overtly ridged opinions ( I try not to go on too much) It's a bit of an echo chamber - and really doesn't help one become more open minded. But I think many people have an addiction to MN, and I can only assume that many members are lacking something in there own lives, are bitter or have low level rage (turning them into keyboard warriors)... which doesn't make them level headed enough for an intellectual debate.

Again, a genuine question, but why are you here if this is how you feel about it? Surely there are other forums you feel are more suited to your intellectual level?

Welcome to MN. Where they hate people who BF, only children are weird, they're scared to open their front doors, SAHM are pathetic, they only want to WFH, hate their colleagues, everyone is a CF, childfree weddings are the devil etc you'll have a blast! 😁 if your husband is cheating or watching porn you'll get 100% support and they'll all be lovely

There are exceptions to the rule on here, and some topics garner more positive conversations - as opposed to point scoring. Like I said, I try to limit my engagement with MN. It's an intellectual pursuit in itself, surely, to understand what a population of people think and feel about something (or why they come on here just to argue). So there is always something to be learnt.

This is what I don't understand. No one is forced to read or post on a public forum.

If you think there's a lack of range and a lack of critical analysis OP then why don't you add your opinion. Certainly you will find that people will agree with you if you're talking any sense. There are plenty of teachers and TA's on here that understand child development, parents with SEN children that are well versed in the different conditions and the hoops you need to jump through to get help and certainly plenty of women that know what it's like to be a woman in a man's world.

It's a bit strange though because you say yourself that 'there were some reasonable counterpoints' to any arguments so I'm not sure what you're looking for - it sounds like you want everyone to be an expert otherwise they shouldn't be allowed to post. Obviously that is completely unrealistic on an open forum.

lol you so do think you are cleverer than everyone else with your pompous prose style and your ‘critical thinking’ nonsense. The endless thong threads are by trolls btw and I have no idea why anyone engages with them.

Only if you LTB straight away on the first command. Otherwise you are fair game apparently!

Also @PractisingMyTelekenipsis 16 years of MN service is an impressive feat. I've been here 10 and often feel like the old gimmer of the place, but you must be able to remember it when it was all fields!

😀

Though, with time travel, they should definitely join Wet Leg, because them doing backing vocals on ‘Its enough, it’s enough, to make a girl blush’ would make me very happy.

It's an intellectual pursuit in itself, surely, to understand what a population of people think and feel about something (or why they come on here just to argue)

That feels remarkably patronising. ‘I visit the forum to find out what those less intelligent than me think’.

You have a really odd use of the word range.

You also have a really odd take on what a chat forum is. Most people come here to state their views, rather being open to having their views challenged. And from your posts on this thread, you would seem to be no different.

And although you state you are not so much objecting to people's views but to their lack of critical analysis, all your examples are of people having views you disagree with.

Thank you :) Was beginning to wonder if I was really just all over the place with my post!

Yeah, I think I also need to be mindful of how much time I spend on here. Being on any social media platform habitually can definitely lead to the patterns you've described.

What to you would an example of objecting to approach rather than just not liking the view look like?

Hahaha!

Not everyone is going to like any given forum. Visiting any one is not obligatory.

If Mumsnet isn't for you, why not leave it for the people it does suit and find something more to your liking?

Hmmm

Thinking you are cleverer than someone, imo, isn't an insult (I believing thinking someone isn't intelligent can be). So if this was my view, it is one that can be agreed or disagreed with. There are responses to this thread that have assumed bad faith and yes are projecting that and no, I don't think that's for me to carry. They can easily ignore and scroll on.

I can understand why this thread comes across as me being "cleverer" and that's why I have responded to and answered what I perceive as genuine questions. I don't think this is a topic you can start with this coming across, although if I could have framed this differently I am all ears.

YANBU OP (and I know this isn’t in AIBU). Certainly the range of hot topics is very limited: making guests take shoes off, getting the ick about workmen shitting in my precious toilet are ones that come up with amusing regularity. Discussions about other, more interesting topics happen less often, and tend to get fewer replies.

I honestly don’t understand the thinking behind going on to a forum of millions of people and starting a thread telling those people what you think is wrong with it (and with them). What were you hoping to achieve from this thread OP?

This is fantastic!

I think that thinking you’re cleverer than someone is an undesirable trait if you voice it. We discourage our 11yo from doing so.

You would do things like critique their style of argument, the internal consistency or coherence of their position, the validity and reliability of their evidence base and so on. You'll see examples from some of the posters on the feminist boards on the subject of gender ideology, and you'll also see an awful lot of pub gobbing off type comments.

Because that's what this forum is. Its a mixed bag of super smart people making intelligent, rationale, coherent arguments, people who just come to make snarky comments they fondly think are mic drops, and people who have allowed themselves to be indoctrinated into holding views they have not really investigated, and some really fucking horrible people too, as well as some wonderful, insightful, wise and compassionate ones. Just like life, but unlike life, they are all bumping along in one place and there is something rather wonderful, albeit sometimes frustrating, about that.

If the diversity of thought and person on here does not suit you, feel free to find a different forum that better meets the niche you are looking for, rather than railing against the nature of this place.