To think I should be allowed weight loss injections?

[Chalk111111]

Firstly, I think it’s a great thing that people are able to use this medication to gain control over their weight, and I think the bar set for getting them on the NHS is ridiculously high and it should be given to anyone who is obese. All those years people spent banging on about how much obesity was pressuring the NHS and then when we’re given a medication to tackle it they don’t make it available!

So I’m not confused about why I can’t get it on the NHS - I shouldn’t be able to - but why can’t I pay for it?

My BMI is 24 and I’d like to shift a stone and a half/two stone. I’ve fluctuated between this weight and a stone lighter for about ten years. I used to be able to shift half a stone at least but this time I’m really struggling.

I keep getting adverts about weight loss injections so I thought I’d have a look. Filled in the questionnaire and it says my BMI isn’t high enough for a prescription? But surely if my starting BMI was, say 35, I’d be allowed to stay on them until my BMI was 21/22, which is what I’d like? So why can’t I pay for them to lose a couple of stone?

People don’t seem to understand that it’s not about wanting to be thinner, it’s about controlling metabolic disease and saving people’s health from the consequences of obesity. At a healthy BMI you are not at risk so don’t need the drug. It is serious medication with risks attached, of course it’s not licensed for people at a healthy weight who fancy losing a stone to look nicer in their holiday snaps.

Is it possible that it damages your body MORE when you are obese because you are suffering from other health related issues as a direct result of your existing obesity?

A relatively healthy person with no obesity related co-morbidities may tolerate WLI better?

Just asking?

That what the pharmacists say. Most obese people want to be thin for aesthetic purposes. To deny this would be akin to saying that everyone would stop smoking if they recognized the damage it does to their health. People are generally not too concerned about the damage to their health until it’s too late.

As other posters have said …

Drug companies develop treatments in several phases of clinical trials - initially for safety (is the drug toxic) and later for efficacy (does the drug do what it says? In what doses? For which patient groups? Does it interact with any other drugs?)

If the license is for a certain BMI with a dosing regime that increases initially and eventually drops as bmi drops, then it is because trials have shown this to be effective and other regimes (eg starting at lower bmi) were either shown in trial to be insufficiently effective or have not yet been trialled (because the drug company wants to get the drug on the market to start covering its r and d investment). If further trials show it is useful for other situations, the license may be expanded, Believe me, drug companies prefer their drugs to be licensed for as wide a use as possible as it enables them to make more revenue and cover the costs of developments that weren’t safe or effective and so had to be scrapped after much investment.

This. I really do worry for the long term consequences of these injections. Obviously weight loss improves health but if you’re only slightly overweight it’s far healthier to lose weight with a calorie deficit and more exercise

Because clearly you only want the drugs for aesthetic reasons and not for health reasons.
They are prescribed for medical needs not to satisfy people’s whims.
Stop the yo yo dieting and learn to live with your body type.

I’d love it if posters would start telling the overweight that they should lose weight through calorie deficit and exercise. It’s just not that simple and obese people would probably benefit more from calorie deficits and exercise than the OP who is probably not obese because she already watches her health by maintaining good eating habits and exercising regularly!

Imagine telling the obese to stop with the binge eating and learn to live with your body!

It's like looking at someone on blood pressure medication and saying 'but they have healthy blood pressure now and so do I, so why can't I take the same medication as them?' The healthy blood pressure is as a result of the medication and to keep it healthy they need to keep taking it.

Obesity isn't brilliantly understood, especially the relapsing element. Someone at a BMI of 24 who has previously had a BMI over 30 is very likely to become obese again. But you, OP, are at very low risk of becoming obese if you never have been. That's why a formerly obese person can take these meds.

Your plastic surgery analogy is flawed because these medications are treating a health issue, not an aesthetic one. There are obviously aesthetic benefits along the way! But the purpose of prescribing the medication is to keep someone at a healthy weight so that they don't relapse into obesity, not to make them look better in a bikini.

There would be enormous profits up for grabs if a drug company were to develop a safe, tested micro dosing regime for healthy weight users so I'm sure research and trials are coming down the pipeline - whether it's ever licensed for that, who knows? And clearly it's going on in wealthy/celebrity circles. But that doesn't mean it's safe or advisable yet.

It’s exactly this. I would like to lose another stone, that’s not shifting and would have ten years ago quite easily.

I do a lot of weight training and have a lot of muscle, so in terms of BMI I actually would be able to get WLI (although to visually look at me/clothes size wise I wouldn’t if that makes sense). I haven’t done this, despite feeling like the whole world is soon going to be stick thin and looking fabulous, because ultimately it’s a drug with side effects and while according to BMI I am overweight, I’m actually not in terms of fat, actual measurements etc and so I don’t have any of the risks to health that counterbalance with the risks of the medication - so I’m just getting on with it as though WLI don’t exist.

24 isnt obese. Diet and excerise is all you need. People are choosing the lazy option with these jabs. Its been reported that people have died due to these jabs & some have damaged their pancreas for the sake of extra excerise and actually thinking about what your eating wouldnt you either that than take the risk of permanently damaging your body.

If it wasn’t tolerated with acceptable side effects in the patient group for which it has been licensed, it wouldn’t have.been licensed.

Drug regulation is well established with evidence thresholds etc.

Just answering

The point is that the obese are at risk of other health conditions, the OP is not.

Perhaps BMI is to simple of a measurement of obesity and therefore eligibility. Too many other factors to consider.

I think it is also very simplistic to say they every obese person on wli is doing it for their health. A lot of those people just want to be skinny!

I totally get you OP. I have struggled most of my life (now mid 50s) with binge eating and all I think about is food and what I look like. My mother was severely obese her entire life with so many mental health issues relating to her weight and what she looked like plus health issues .

managed to get skinny in my teens by barely eating which led to binge eating and hasn’t stopped.

I don’t weigh myself as it just sends me into a binge eating spiral but I imagine, going by clothing and how I feel/look that my BMI is around 25/26.

I manage to stay this weight and not get obese by bingeing on vegetables and low calorie food most of the week and only have very high calorie binges once a week. I also go to the gym and make sure I do at least 10k steps a day.

I fully admit how jealous I am of those I know who are privately paying for the jabs. They are BMI of 27-30 mainly because they love eating and drinking and barely exercise whereas I am spending every moment trying not to binge/trying to only binge on low calorie food /exercising…

For those of you on here saying it’s so easy to lose a stone, you have no idea.

For what it’s worth, I would be scared of taking the jabs anyway as I had cancer a couple of years ago and don’t want any other medical issues. But it’s so hard and yes, I am very jealous as it’s a daily struggle.

Well then that goes to say that the ‘slightly overweight’ are at no more risk to side effects than those who are officially obese given that they should inherently have less weight related health problems to start with.

Yeah that might be why a person wants it, but that's not why a doctor prescribes it to them. It's licensed to treat obesity, not make people look nicer. That's a side effect, and sure it might well be the motivator for someone taking it. It's still not a reason for it to be prescribed.

Ha ha, read the side effects list, it’s longer than your arm. How do you think these jabs work. Vanity is no reason to expose yourself to that.

Doctors don’t just randomly walk up to overweight people with concern for their health and prescribe WLI. People are asking for it and will say it is for their health but it isn’t because most of them have spent years trying to get thin for the sake of being thin and looking good.

I get where you’re coming from op. I guess the line has to be drawn somewhere and unfortunately you are considered to be a healthy weight per BMI, so not needing to lose weight. I know I wouldn’t feel good at a bmi of 24 and like to be around 22.5/23 at the most.

It really doesn’t. Read my post about proving things in clinical trials.

A general plea… if the pharmaceutical industry did not need to be cautious and highly regulated, then it wouldn’t be. The structures and procedures are needed. Someone with a random “well, it should be like this, cos that sounds logical” is not qualified to make that judgement. i worked briefly in the industry (business not research) and I know damn well that I don’t know enough to make random statements about anything clinical, because anyone who is has the right degree, almost certainly with a PhD and years of the right experience

I have been on the jabs for over two years now and haven't reached BMI 24. I am just under 30 now. Can you see how my body has got used to it, my exercise and eating habits gave changed enormously over that time? I may have caused damage in done areas but I've improved in lots of others. If some one of BMI 24 wants to lose a couple of stone unless there are underlying reasons why that might be difficult for them, conventional diet and exercise will work for them.

I understand your question and don't know why the answers are so obtuse. I don't know the answer though.
Either the jabs are dangerous at a BMI of 24 or they aren't.

Exactly. How can they not be dangerous for the obese and dangerous for the slightly overweight?
Who decides where the risk and benefit line is?
It has to be more about supply than risk.

Even some morbidly obese people cannot get them easily on the NHS, it depends where you live. My ex weighs somewhere between 36-40 stone and he got refused them on the NHS and was told he would need to pay for it himself. If he lived in a different part of the UK he would automatically qualify for them for free. Totally crazy someone that size being knocked back for them. I've considered getting them myself, as I need to lose around 5.5 stone, but I'm not convinced they've been around long enough to know the full long term implications and side effects, so I'm just eating less and moving more, and that's shifting 2-3lbs per week, which I'm happy with.