To think I should be allowed weight loss injections?

[Chalk111111]

Firstly, I think it’s a great thing that people are able to use this medication to gain control over their weight, and I think the bar set for getting them on the NHS is ridiculously high and it should be given to anyone who is obese. All those years people spent banging on about how much obesity was pressuring the NHS and then when we’re given a medication to tackle it they don’t make it available!

So I’m not confused about why I can’t get it on the NHS - I shouldn’t be able to - but why can’t I pay for it?

My BMI is 24 and I’d like to shift a stone and a half/two stone. I’ve fluctuated between this weight and a stone lighter for about ten years. I used to be able to shift half a stone at least but this time I’m really struggling.

I keep getting adverts about weight loss injections so I thought I’d have a look. Filled in the questionnaire and it says my BMI isn’t high enough for a prescription? But surely if my starting BMI was, say 35, I’d be allowed to stay on them until my BMI was 21/22, which is what I’d like? So why can’t I pay for them to lose a couple of stone?

As i understand it, the fats cells of an obese person are different to someone who has never been obese. So when I (obese and on mounjaro) get to bmi 24, the same as you, we aren't the same. I would gain weight much more quickly even eating and moving the same as you, who has never been obese. I believe it take several years for the 'obese' fat cells to be replaced with 'normal' ones. (I read a few studies where this was tested partially in humans and in mice).
As an obese person once I lose weight my body will do everything in its power to get me to put it back on, insatiable physical hunger. It's awful. My body is broken essentially so the glp1 that my body needs is replaced with mounjaro. It's likely I will need it for several years.
That's why it's a medication for obesity specifically and not small weight loss.
I have had minimal gastric side effects but have lost alot of hair. I have been losing up to 2 pounds per week so not fast loss at all. I still have to put the work in, I exercise, calorie count and take collagen.
I had prediabetes which has now reversed and I am waiting to see if my high cholesterol levels have reduced.
Some people have bad side effects, others have even ended up hospitalised from the medication, it really isnt just to lose a little bit of weight, despite what the media might say.
My bmi is now 28.7 after losing 39 pounds. Forr my ethnicity it's still classed as obese and won't be normal until I get to bmi 23.
I think your question is valid but be so pleased you never got to my situation and needed the injections. It's been pretty miserable and although I am having the weight loss, it's a long term financial commitment and risk that I am taking because the risk of my obesity was higher

Why would you want to put something into your body that is so new and the long term effects unknown when your health is not at risk from your weight?

im unsure how I feel about them even for the obese. Unless people really do change their life styles when on them then they won’t work long term unless people stay on them for ever anyway. But understand if your weight is putting your life at risk and you’ve tried what feels like everything without success that these could feel like a lifeline.

for you OP, no. The benefit wouldn’t outweigh the risk. Eat less and move more and you’ll loose some weight. How much exercise do you do a week?

Sure, but my point is that doesn't matter - they'll only get it prescribed on medical grounds. Whether they want it for aesthetic reasons has no bearing - only if they qualify on medical grounds, can they have it. So maybe aesthetic reasons can prompt a person to ask for it (though if you've been obese, you will know the accompanying health issues are not comfortable and are also likely motivating!) but it's not prescribed in order to make people look better.

So a person with 10lbs to shift until they look best in their swimsuit won't get the drug because that isn't the intended purpose. The person with 100lbs to shift might also be thinking 'I can't wait to hit the beach!' but that isn't the reason the doctor prescribes it. The patient's desire to look good is neither here nor there.

People saying ‘fuck around with your pancreas’ and being judgemental I’m sure never drink for fun and ‘fuck around with their liver’ 😂 It’s because it’s so new. How many times do you hear people at work that say they can’t wait for a beer or wine when they get in or arranging drinks on a weekend when we KNOW it damages your liver and more. Also, there is a thing where slim people don’t want fat people to be slim. It’s talked about a lot and some people openly admit it, people will say it’s nonsense but I genuinely think there will be a study proving it soon. Probably because a lot of fat people have developed a wicked sense of humour thanks to how they’ve been treated over the years so along with the weight loss they’re considered high value now. I lost lots and lots of weight naturally through exercise and diet. I couldn’t get the last stone off and because I wasn’t obese I couldn’t get Mounjaro (paid) so I lied and I’ve no regrets at all, some people around me (including my ex) have judged and I don’t care as I watch them drink beer or eat food that could give them heart disease whilst judging me that is teetotal, exercises and has never touched a recreational drug. It’s my body, I’m paying and the risks are small. I have managed to find a retort for everyone that’s said if I get sick I will be a drain on the NHS - ‘you smoke / vape which is proven to cause health issues.’ ‘You drink alcohol which is known to cause health issues.’ ‘You take part in extreme sports which is risky and if you were to get hurt the NHS would take the burden of your care’ ‘you never exercise which is proven to be a leading cause of heart disease and the NHS will probably need to prescribe you medication at some point.’ etc etc etc. there are very, very few people that don’t indulge in something that is risky for their own pleasure (of course they will all say they don’t on here because we can’t prove it but don’t believe them, only a handful will be telling the truth) Your BMI is pretty low so I think I a very small dose would get you where you want to be. Just get some speed, no-one will judge you then because it’s been around forever 😂 or do one of those extreme diets that can trigger an eating disorder or mess with your insulin levels etc (I’m being sarcastic of course because you just know from from experience that most women on here have done all this before and no one cared)

Because of a load of already slim people take it to get skinny and end up with a bunch of side effects it will fuck things up for the rest of us who actually need it.

I’m not talking about people’s motivation for taking it, I’m talking about its clinical purpose. It’s not for making people look nicer, it’s for saving their health. The OP does not have the health risks of obesity because she doesn’t have obesity, so she doesn’t need the drug.

The difference is that there are huge health consequences of obesity. The OP is a healthy BMI, she’s not even overweight. So she’s more than welcome to lose weight if she wants, but as she doesn’t need treatment for obesity, she shouldn’t and won’t be prescribed drugs that are for treating obesity.

It’s not difficult - the risks of taking the drug are only one side of the equation. They are considered alongside the risks of not taking it.

For the OP the risks of not taking it are zero because she does not have obesity. So the risks of taking the drug outweigh the risks of not taking it.

For someone with obesity, the risks of not taking the drug outweigh the risks of taking it because obesity has many dangerous potential consequences. This is still the case if they lose weight, because for most people with obesity, it’s a chronic disease and does not just go away.

The clinical purpose of the drug is to combat the potential dangerous consequences of obesity. There are no such dangerous consequences for the OP with her BMI of 24.

But if she wants to lose weight that’s the only option as she’s not eligible for the weight loss injections

I really do understand what you are saying. I just think that most obese people want to be thinner for aesthetics rather than their health. Most people are not that in tune with the health consequences of obesity but are very much aware of the pressure of society to be thin. So while the doctor is motivated by his patients health, the patient is more likely to be motivated by their appearance which makes what the OP is saying relevant.

I don’t think I’ve heard too many large women complain about the potential for co-morbities being the motivating factor for going on a diet. It’s about being thin to fit in.

And unfairly so.

I did wonder why people just didn’t lie on the assessment questionnaire to get it. There are only so many checks they can do and I suppose as long as they can cover their backs if anything does go wrong, then from their perspective they’ve done all they can. I don’t know what evidence you have to give but I can’t imagine it’s hard to fake.

So. Let's get this straight. You have no idea of the ramifications of taking the drug but you think you should be able to just take it if you can pay? Sounds like a great idea. And when your body responds negatively because it wasn't prescribed I assume you'd want the NHS to treat you?

This x 1000.

There are some frankly dangerous responses here that encourage disordered thinking around weight.

I also have a BMI of 24 and I'd like to lose a few pounds, but I'm certainly not entitled enough to think I should be offered a drug intended for obese people. Instead I'm eating healthier and exercising more, it really is that simple unless you've either got a medical condition, or you're already at a low weight.

No, it's really not unfair. This is serious medication with side effects that we don't have the full picture on yet. If you genuinely believe weight loss injections are the answer for an already healthy person to lose a few pounds for their holiday, then there's a wider problem here.

A lot of celebrities are using the injection when they're already a normal weight, Katie price as an example looks awful at 7 stone.
So much for celebrating curves.
We're heading for the 90's heroin chic.

That’s a doctors motivation for dispensing the drug. I would wager a lot of money that the motivation for the obese person walking into a doctors office to be prescribed is more likely to favor being thinner to fit in rather than the list of health risks that are associated with their obesity.

People are just not that self aware with regards to their health but are very aware of what society deems to be acceptable in terms of what you look like. No fat person feels shame because they have high blood pressure or are at risk of heart disease. They feel shame about what they look like.

Are you obese? I think you might be underestimating the misery of living with the health consequences of obesity. Some are hidden (until they’re not) like higher risk of cancer, stroke, liver and kidney disease, high blood pressure and high cholesterol, increased risk of heart attack. But many are daily difficulties, like chronic joint pain, depression, mobility issues, gallstones, diabetes, infertility, sleep problems including apnoea, breathlessness, reflux, digestive problems and skin problems.

Plus it can also be about trying to function in the world, so people want to be able to go to the theatre and fit in a seat, or run around with their kids or go on holiday on a plane or go for a walk even. They want to be able to buy clothes in an actual shop where they can try things on, get up off the floor if they fall over, pick up their kids, ride a bike, cut their own toenails, have a bath, sit on a chair without worrying it will break. Maybe they need an operation and can’t have a general anaesthetic at their weight. For many people these things are way, way more significant than how they look. That is often the least of their worries.

The risks outweigh the benefits if you aren’t obese

And equally for many, many people they just want to be thin!

I think the qualifying criteria for WLI should be more than BMI but this would involve more than health professionals have the time for.

If you look at the WLI support threads on here plenty of people cite painful joints, mobility problems, sleep apnoea, pre-diabetes - tons of health issues that people are sick of suffering and want to lose weight to alleviate. It's not solely aesthetics once you're past a BMI of 30.

It’s not hard at all, it’s a photo of your feet on the scales - well how do they know what you’re holding? A photo of your body in tight clothes - TikTok is your friend here! I’ve heard some providers do video calls but it hasn’t happened to me. I’ve actually come off it now very recently but it wasn’t hard, once you’re on it the checks are different as well. I know there will be people with eating disorders etc that this is exceptionally dangerous for but there’s always been things / drugs that can be abused by people. At the end of the day it’s your choice what you do to your body, men would never say the things women say about weight loss drugs. I haven’t once heard a man say ‘oh but what about your pancreas?’ We’re our own worst enemies!

Exactly, obese people absolutely worry about health conditions, they are experiencing them! When I was big I was worried about cancer and diabetes, secondary was being able to run round after my kids. and those were my biggest motivations for losing it all.

I take it you don’t have personal experience then.

Try reading the threads on here for people trying to lose > 5st or > 10st. You’ll see very few references about wanting to be thin or how people look. And lots about how people feel and being able to do new things, sleeping better, chronic pain improving etc. There are more important things going on than trying to fit in. That is not really a concern. It’s about rescuing some kind of quality of life and not dying young.

If you really think that obese people would prioritise being thin over reducing chronic pain, relieving their depression, reversing type 2 diabetes, being able to walk properly and sleep properly then I think you have very little understanding of what it’s like to have obesity.