To think I should be allowed weight loss injections?

[Chalk111111]

Firstly, I think it’s a great thing that people are able to use this medication to gain control over their weight, and I think the bar set for getting them on the NHS is ridiculously high and it should be given to anyone who is obese. All those years people spent banging on about how much obesity was pressuring the NHS and then when we’re given a medication to tackle it they don’t make it available!

So I’m not confused about why I can’t get it on the NHS - I shouldn’t be able to - but why can’t I pay for it?

My BMI is 24 and I’d like to shift a stone and a half/two stone. I’ve fluctuated between this weight and a stone lighter for about ten years. I used to be able to shift half a stone at least but this time I’m really struggling.

I keep getting adverts about weight loss injections so I thought I’d have a look. Filled in the questionnaire and it says my BMI isn’t high enough for a prescription? But surely if my starting BMI was, say 35, I’d be allowed to stay on them until my BMI was 21/22, which is what I’d like? So why can’t I pay for them to lose a couple of stone?

I ended up in hospital after taking wegovy. Unbeknown to me I had gallstones. The drug inflamed by gallbladder and it now has to come out. I'm bedridden 50% of the time. If I had carried on I would risk my pancreas too. I had a bmi of 30 so the lowest you can go unless you are diabetic.
People who have been obese have a different metabolism and hormone balance. You don't OP.
I'd buy two months worth of a diet box like Jane plan. Eight weeks on that with no booze or cheating should do it.
I've lost six stone but was desperate to get the last two off. The ill health and side effects mean I can't take it but it has changed lives.

Weight regain following Mounjaro use is in line with weight regain after ANY diet. This is one of the reasons obesity is considered a disease, because a significant proportion of people who lose large amounts of weight through ANY means go on to regain it, it is a lifelong medical issue.

I’m exactly the same….ive tried to pm you for details but it won’t let me. If anyone can suggest a clinic for micro dosing I’d appreciate it!

I agree with most of this, and completely recognise how appetite goes off the scale when you are in a calorie deficit. Constant horrible hunger every waking hour. But that feeling is not restricted to “obese” people. Since I was a teenager I have kept having to go on diets, and have fluctuated between bmi 29 and bmi 23/4. I turned 50 and it got so much harder. Usually the first stone is easier than the last to lose but still not easy. I eat extremely healthily but have a huge appetite. I really dont suit being overweight and feel miserable, but then dieting makes me miserable too just through the constant hunger. I’ve barely slept tonight with hunger. Excercise helps while I’m doing it but the harder I exercise, the hungrier I am the next day. I hate dieting. It is in no way easy for some people

Thats why it would be nice if more people could have it and I was tempted myself, but the pancreatitis risk has put me off and I understand the reasons why I shouldn’t have it. Doesn’t stop me wanting an easier solution though, I think I’m going to be hungry for the rest of.my life 😫

Finally some good explanations on this thread - not sure why people have piled in, especially with people not reading the OP properly!

This quoted reply explains it very well, I feel. Also,

If you consider Obesity as a disease then the thought that looking overweight is only one ‘symptom’ the underlying disease is still there when a person has lost weight. This is different to someone who has a normal BMI. WLD are continuing to treat the underlying disease that you can no longer see due to the outward signs going but that is still present.

I find it so odd that people are calling the OP entitled. Surely it’s more entitled to get fat and then expect the NHS to bail you out with tax payers money?! Not that I believe that either tbh - but we can all calorie count and go to the gym and yet clearly that is out of reach for some people and obesity has many complexities. I can’t see how it’s entitled to privately seek help with an issue (weight gain) before it accelerates to obesity.

You're not interpreting the responses correctly.
You have to look at the whole trajectory of someone going from 35 to 23, you can't just arbitrarily break it up as you are doing.

The poster you responded to suggested a person who had been very obese would face greater challenges adjusting to not being on the drugs and maintaining their weight. Perfectly sensible suggestion.

Another above said that by the time someone has been on it from 35 to 24 the bulk of any damage would have been done and the additional risk of getting a couple of points lower not so significant.

You for some reason substituted 'damage' (which could be currently unseen and act long term) for 'side effects' in your reply- the point of the post sailing way over your head.

You do know we don't know everything about these drugs, right? That it's about balancing benefits with risks which are not yet fully understood?

Meant to quote this response of yours which was rude. But I see that Chat GPTs response (which was a combination of points that had already been made but phrased in more authoritative language) satisfied you. So I found that really interesting in terms of what people find convincing, and was worth me reading the thread. RiP Mumsnet.....

It's a drug with potentially dangerous side effects including death. Nobody should be taking it unless the risk of death is higher without it. I've lost 5 stone on it and I can't wait to come off it. It's been a rough ride for sure. Now I'm doing everything to plan my life continuing at this new weight without drugs.

I see this question so often on here I am starting to be suspicious of it. But to answer in good faith:

if you’d been obese and MJ had helped you lose weight to a BMI of 24 then it’s likely you would have had a hormone imbalance that caused the obesity and that you would still have that same hormone imbalance at BMI 24. So you can stay on the drug because it is still needed to correct a medical issue. You cannot stay on it if it causes your BMI to drop dangerously low but that is because it then starts to harm you. But if your BMI stabilises at a healthy weight on the drug you can stay on it forever to continually medicate the hormone issue you still have that would most likely cause weight gain if you were not medicated.

if you start with a healthy BMI then you most likely do not have a hormone problem. So there isn’t nothing to medicate. So you cannot start the drugs.

For me, this continual question suggests that people still view weight as a direct choice and the drug not as a medicine for a health problem but as a lifestyle choice - hence it being compared to cosmetic surgery. Once you accept that people with obesity are likely sick to start with, hence the weight, it makes more sense. When you take long term medication for a health problem you often don’t stop just because the effects of that health problem are controlled. You keep taking the drug to keep controlling the side effects because you are not ‘cured’.

I completely understand what the poster is saying. I’ve put a stone on, i am 5ft weigh 9st 2, i’d like to lose a stone to get back to my preferred weight to be healthier as my bmi/visceral fats/cholestorol etc increased and to fit comfortably into my clothes, some people think to lose a stone should be easy, it’s frankly not that simple, ive tried various things like lower my carbs, increased protein, reduced portion sizes, slimfast. Increased my running sessions (5k x4 a week) to go through a cycle of losing/gaining one or two pounds, so probably like the op i see people getting this jab and losing i kind of am jealous rightly or wrongly that i can’t get the same help and feel demoralised.

I get that it has risks but it wouldn’t have been licensed if dangerous, two family members and a couple of friends are on it and have absolutely no side effects and are reducing weight, bmi etc and are doing amazing, when they previously haven’t managed to lose.

i understand not everyone gets how it feels and might think its easy to lose a stone/a stone ish like the op is wanting isn’t that much compared to others, but to that person ie the op/me it is important, especially when they are trying to be healthy.
I agree posters are pointing the reasons why etc and it perhaps isn’t being taken on board, but i genuinely get the op’s feelings, its hard not to want the help that others are getting (especially when they can stay on it when get to the same bmi that i/the op are starting at, I understand the lower bmi/eating disorder reasons etc) it doesn’t mean it’s easy when not a lot to lose like posters have said, trust me i know, i’m doing all i can to get back to a healthier, feel good weight, and when i’m not finding it easy to be told, it’s only a stone/age/menopause weight etc, accept it, it’s hard not to think why can’t i have help too. Its a natural feeling. Yes, health wise not in the same importance as others but a valid feeling none the less.

Yeah, I think it's very likely we will move to using GLPs as a preventative in the future. Instead of waiting until someone is obese, more likely a short course of pills to manage the first few pounds that go on, avoiding the metabolic injury of adiposity in the first place. (Can imagine dry January getting even more effective. )

Right now, we're still engaged in this earlyish mass experiment, but I think it's quite likely that microdose and prophylactic applications will come to market over the next few years. Big Food and Big Pharma are going to throw down! 😉

I do get your point actually, as you say someone can keep buying them once their bmi is currently lower than yours if they were obese to start with.

Because these drugs are for people who have the metabolic disease called obesity. Someone with obesity who loses weight still has or is at risk from obesity and it may well still need managing. You don’t have obesity, you’re not even overweight.

1. You are not obese. You are not even overweight!!
2. How many obese people actually manage a bmi of 24? Even with weight loss injections?
3. Those who take weight loss injections are expected to regain at least some of the weight when they stop taking them. Having them stop as soon as they reach a healthy weight would therefore defeat the purpose.
4. some people who have obesity may need to take weight loss injections for the rest of their lives!

are you aware that obesity is a serious medical condition? That is why these injections (and their risks!) are proportionate for those who have obesity. They wouldn’t be for people at a perfectly healthy weight. If you’re still willing to take the risk of injections simply for a few kilos less, I’d strongly urge you to consider therapy.

Ok, I’ll try:

• weight loss jobs carry risks;
• based on a variety of factors guidelines have been set where appropriately qualified professionals consider the benefits to outweigh the risks;
• You are not within those guidelines, so cannot access the drug;
• people who were in the category are allowed to remain on it until they reach an agreed bmi within the normal range. The nature of the type of conditions/behaviours is such that they are likely to regain weight, or have associated factors that mean the lower end of the range is more favourable, hence the “unfairness” of which you are complaining.

Also please bear in mind these drugs are under supply pressure so will only be prescribed to people who “need” them, which you don’t. You would like to lose some weight and want an easy way to do it, but you do not need to.

I've actually thought the same thing as you. I think it's because half the UK are a little overweight, and the stock has to be prioritied for the diabetics and obese. Perhaps in the future they're roll out more stock and open it to everyone (privately).

Please could you PM the doctors info?

Well summed up @Christine1998 - this is me too. if we dropped all the hard work and self control ironically we would soon be obese and then eligible.

Hormone imbalance are not the preserve of the obese either to address a pp - I’m pretty confident that my weight gain was very closely linked with hormone imbalance and insulin resistance but with social factors and some self control on my side I wasn’t escalating to obesity. Genetics are not my friend either - my parents are obese, my siblings have put on weight. I face what feels like a constant battle just to stand still and frankly if MJ can take the heat out of that battle then happy days. My visceral fat, cholesterol and weight should all improve and I will feel a benefit that is more than just being thin.

I get that it has risks but it wouldn’t have been licensed if dangerous,

All licensed drugs are dangerous. Paracetamol is lethal at high doses, for one.

Every drug has side effects - they are licensed if the common side effects are seen as a reasonable trade off to the disease being treated and the serious side effects are sufficiently rare.

You don’t just pick up your mum’s heart medicine or your dad’s inhaler and take it on the grounds that “it’s licensed so it can’t be dangerous” - do you?!

Its perfectly undestandable that anyone who has even a bit of weight to lose will see he success stories of those who had a lot of weight to lose and want access to the same tools.

But there has to be a criteria with it, as it is a prescription only medication with possible side effects. And theres vulnerable people within society who having he medication could be dangerous. So the limit is BMI 30, BMI 27 for certain "groups" and if you have weight related conditions. There has to be these limitations.

Now a medical professional can prescibe "off license" with strict monitoring, but the vast majority of sources arent going to do this they will stick to the license criteria.

There has also been research produced that allows the license to include "maintenance", if someone has successfully reached a healthy BMI, they are allowed to continue prescribing it long term. I believe when it first came out that was 2 years from reaching a healthy BMI, but the companies producing the medication have said that it is intended to be used for life, imve not looked recently to see if that licensed prescribing period has now been increased. But maintenance prescribing was definitely licensed.

Maybe the perameters of the license wll change in the future, but for now, and as unfair as it may feel, thats the license they will stick to.

But as a ersonal note, let me tell you, its not all fun and games, its not easy, its not magic. Its ben a challenge for me. I may have shifted the weight (47kg), but, i now have other life long, life changing conditions as a direct reslt of the medication. I have lost a career i worked my arse off to get to, my dream job from childhood, ive permenently lost my full mobility. Theres side effects that are spoken of infrequently, that i had no idea about at all.

Oh how weight loss has become sacred ground for the morbidly obese only. Crazy.

The thinner you are the more dangerous these drugs potentially are. On average 40% of the weight you lose is muscle and bone mass. That ratio is higher the thinner you are. At your weight you could lose the extra weight relatively easily without these drugs. Of-course you shouldn't have them.

No.
They are for people struggling with obesity. They have side effects and risks that become silly to take on if you actually only have a small amount of weight to lose and aren't at risk from obesity. Why would you do that to yourself?
I took mounjaro for a month i was obese.. I'm still having GI issues 8 weeks after stopping it. I lost 4 stone in total and am still overweight however I'm a lot better than I was.
But the GI issues have been horrific. Worth it fir me because of the health risks of obesity.
It is NOT worth it if you were already a reasonably healthy weight or only slightly overweight. Do jot do that to your body! You will be able to lose weight via calorie deficit. Obesity is a disease. It's very hard to get out of with no help. That's why the weight loss injections are necessary.
At your weight you really do not need to be taking this risk.it could really harm you physically.. it's also possible it will trigger an eating disorder.
It can effect people very strongly. I was only on the lowest dose and could not eat more than around 1000 calories a day... which isn't healthy but as I was obese it didn't do me much damage. It absolute will damage your body if you aren't obese.

Losing four stone in a month would cause most people GI issues.