What do you think the trans debate will look like in 10 years?

[Roxietrees]

Around 3 years ago I would have called myself a trans ally and fully supportive of trans rights. However over the last 6 months my opinion has changed and I have done more and more research and reading mainly into the impact of trans women on women’s rights and lesbian rights. I’m now firmly of the belief that trans activists are erasing women’s hard fought for rights and threatening the validity and even existence of lesbians. This fills me with rage and i don’t think I’m alone in this shift in opinion (as the recent Supreme Court ruling demonstrated). I read somewhere that there has been quite a large downturn in support for trans rights over the last year. Once again it seems men are in control and, what pisses me off the most is on the many occasions trans activists have assaulted women’s rights activists the police do fuck all about it. For fear of looking transphobic maybe? A year ago I’d have said that in 10 years society would be a fully accepting place for trans people. Now I don’t think so. There appears to be (thankfully) more and more backlash against trans ideology and I think we may be heading for a very different society to what I originally thought. What do you think the trans debate will look like in 10 years?

please define genderqueer, trans and NB.
I’ll wait.

all this.
With bells on.
And it’s not hateful, phobic, genocidal or bigoted to say it.

I think we will be reading about the legal action being taken against the nhs and other organisations by now adults who have been left permanently damaged by surgical or medical transition as children /teens.

Exactly! In the early eighties the New Romantics dressed just how they wanted to and being a female in no make up was fine too.

i did a training course at work last year where I was told if I didn’t have long hair and make up I wasn’t a woman, I was trans.

i agree with previous posters, I think there will be inquiries and compensation claims. Also a reckoning on how much all this nonsense has cost liberal politics in general.

They’ll realise that Reg in Life of Brian was right. “It’s symbolic of his struggle against reality.”

I’ve heard people my age saying “if this had been around when I was a teenager, and someone had told me I could change sex, I would TOTALLY have believed them.” Let’s hope reality dawns before too many young people do something they might regret.

And how’s the fact that trans men shouldn’t be allowed in women’s toilets working for her then given that they have male sounding voices?

People are so fixated on the whole “women are women” debate that they seem to have lost sight of the fact that there are plenty of women who are also transitioning. Almost as many as men even, if not female to male then gender neutral, and top surgery is a thing - I know at least three people who have had it done, one because they’ve transitioned from female to male, and other two because they’re now gender neutral.

In ten/twenty years time trans will be seen in the same way as being gay is now. The debate will have died down because the people going there will have grown into their lives. Transphobia will be a hate crime in the same way that homophobia is now.

There will be less of the people just declaring themselves trans, but those who have now and who are still living with it likely already were, it’s just that they have come out at a time when the discussion was at a controversial height.

Trans has always been around. There have always been trans people, there have always been people who have had sex changes.

The level has increased, but the phenomenon isn’t new.

I completely disagree that people, especially men, are able to dress how they want comfortably and safely in wider society. Around my mates, yeah. But in general, no. Did you read the (extremely long) thread recently when a mum wanted to dress her son in light blue gingham shorts for school? Twenty pages worth of outrage at the idea!
I've worked in schools for a decade. A boy in a year 6 class I was in was called gay for having a pink water bottle, as recently as 3 years ago.

Times are changing, and I hope they continue to do so, but we aren't there yet.

Plenty of issues have "always been around". That doesn't mean we have to change society to enable people's fantasies that they are Jesus, or able to fly, or a woman.

I'd like to think we'll get back to being able to present how we want without having to provide a gender to match. For a brief golden time it looked like we were going to be able to get rid of those stupid boxes, but now people are busy squeezing themselves right back in them.
The saddest thing is that, included in the (welcome) backlash against unthinking TWAW ideology, there are now lots of genuinely nasty transphobic /homophobic comments. The real bigots are coming out to play. And I suspect it's us terven who will get the blame.

There have always been people around who have body dysmorphia to the point where they disconnect to their own bodies

This isnt any different to people who want to be deaf or blind or chop an arm or hand off. Its a MH disorder and needs to be treated as such.

I'd find it difficult because I don't use any of those labels. I'm just a woman, she/her, gender's not for me or something I really think about for myself. For other people it's a helpful way to describe themselves and it's important to them. They're people I love, who love me back and don't judge me, so I don't judge them. If you'd like to know more I suggest coming along to a pride event/taking some time to talk/listen to people.

fruitycider. I think you have a good point there. When I think about it I think women can really wear whatever they want. Full girly to very masc u don’t think bats an eye. For men it’s different. At uni they probably can be uber femme if they want but pre and post uni - eg in the work place, unless they are in a super cool industry like music production then yeh I take your point.

although why one of could ever want to wear a dress heels and sparkles unless it was for social conformity I don’t know. Like if I had to go to a ball I would do it but hate it - as i think most women do- but we have that pressure to look glamorous for certain occasions. I don’t think many of us think ‘oooh goodie I get to put heels and a frock on’. Maybe I’m wrong and that’s just me.

Interesting discussion though - really getting me thinking

I dont know where you live but I live in quite a conservative area, worse than that to be honest, and I see people of all styles and ages and clothing types.

And you might be too young to know this but back in the 80s and 90s, people wore all sorts of things and played with all sorts of toys as children. The trans and gender ideology has been incredibly harmful to sex stereotypes, you give an example of just that, that pink is somehow to do with females. Thats what gender ideology promotes, that there is a dress code/walking/talking/working/hobbying/lifestyle option dependent on sex.

There isnt. Your sex doesnt dictate any of that. It just is.

I’ve talked till I’m blue in the face and had different explanations of these terms every single
time. Which makes it all kind of meaningless. I appreciate
its hard to admit that or to say that. Far easier to push the be kind agenda. And if it was just about labels and harmless rainbow identities, that would be totally fine.

I was a goth. No harm done. I didn’t have a mastectomy to be a goth. I didn’t become a lifelong medical patient on hormones to be a goth. I didn’t become infertile to be a goth. I didn’t demand that other people use incorrect pronouns for me. I didn’t demand unfair advantage in sports or to use opposite sex toilets and facilities to be a goth.

When you say you’ve done “research”, have you just read a bunch of terf shit on mumsnet?

I think the people who post transphobic things right now will be ashamed. It’ll be like looking back at homophobia in the 80s.

These JK Rowling views will not age well at all.

Which "views" of JKR are you referring to?

soupyspoon. I completely agree with you. I think all transing should be outlawed - and will be with the passage of time.
Its a mental illness - just like body dysmorphia is (anorexia) but if a doctor gave an anorexic diet pills, a gastric bypass and the counsellor ‘affirmed’ their idea that they were fat they’d be struck off. As they should.

I see it as no different to transracial or transablism.

All dangerous and utter nonsense. In fact transracial makes more sense than transgender because most people aren’t pure white or black (whatever that means) yet people aren’t utterly horrified by Rachel dolezial. But male and female is very very clear. You can’t be a bit of either.

such an articulate well written post. Just the sort of aggressive trans activist retort I come to expect. It’s getting much louder because they know it’s a sinking ship.

Hmmmmm - I think you'll find that alot of people care if there is a bloke in the next door loo or cubical..... especially ones that arent floor to ceiling. If you dont care then more fool you

This ten times over.

yes and please do explain which of JK’s
comments and posts you’re referring to, with direct quotes, not insults from TRAs on Reddit. I’ll wait…

Oh, here we go. The TRAs have entered the chat.

Hopefully this will be recognised as a medical scandal to rival contaminated blood and at least some of the victims will be claiming compensation. Unfortunately I reckon that will take longer than 10 years.

I hope that in 10 years we will look back at this and think... what the hell were we thinking. how did we alow a small portion of mentally ill people to control so much of our policies? how did we allow suck a small minority of mentally ill people to make such huge changes that had sugh a negative affect on womens and girls rights and saftey.

Legal Cases, Government Enquires, and lots of money being paid out is my best guess.