Greta’s flotilla

[TheSnugMoose]

What are you thoughts on this? 13 people including Greta Thunberg were travelling to Palestine via boat with supplies. It’s been intercepted by Isreal and diverted.

Whatvare your thoughts? I’m guessing they will simply be deported, maybe with a severe telling off? The UN and the Palestinian foreign ministry have vocalised their support and asked for them to be allowed to continue their journey, however Isreal have said it was nothing more than a vanity exercise and they had very limited supplies on board to actually give aid.

What do you think will happen to the activists on board? Do you think they were right to go? Do you think they genuinely wanted to help or it was more about raising awareness?

I like Greta and I love that she has, so far, used her life to champion causes and she seems like a clever and funny woman. But I wonder if this trio was always doomed and what their long term plan was, especially if they had little aid onboard? But if that was their intention, maybe they just wanted to raise awareness of their feelings on the situation? Should anyone be trying to intervene like this or should it be left to proper channels?

I know feelings are high about this and I want to say I don’t support any of the awful things that have happened and recognise bad things on both sides. I don’t care for Israel’s terrible behaviour or Hamas’ awful doings, I do however care for the innocent people in the middle on both sides. This thread is just to get general thoughts on this…’mission’.

Just to add my thoughts: if this was a genuine aid mission then I respect them putting themselves potentially at risk (due to the boat trip) to care for others but also feel like it’s extremely naive and not actually the right thing to do, there has to be better ways to support?

@mumandmumber I don't find it a complicated narrative. I felt and do still feel a real disgust at what was done by Hamas. I also understand that given your history the absolute pain, sadness and fear this caused you. I can also think this and still think that Israel's actions since have been disproportionate and caused unacceptable levels of harm to civilians. I'm not deflecting, both of the above can be truly held beliefs.
I also sincerely believe that we don't really understand the horror that has happened there yet (for obvious reasons) and that as more comes to light, people are going to feel more and more disgusted. In the long term it is something Israel will need to reconcile as part of its history.

I’m not saying there was no outrage or grief over October 7th. Of course there was, and still is. What I said—and still stand by—is that within 24 hours, criticism of Israel was already circulating widely, well before any military response had even begun. That shift happened incredibly fast.
I can also speak from my own lived experience, as someone of Israeli and Jewish heritage with close family in Israel. In the immediate aftermath of October 7th, only two of my close friends reached out to check in or express any concern. Meanwhile, within just a few days, my social media was filled with posts from friends and acquaintances sharing anti-Israel content and expressing concern for Gaza.
I’m not saying people have to pick a side. But the reality is, many of them did—and it was painfully clear who they didn’tmake space for. That silence, that absence of empathy when Jewish people were grieving and afraid, was deeply felt. And when we try to speak about that experience, it’s often challenged or dismissed—just like now. That’s exactly the kind of dynamic I was trying to name.

Israel doesn't look good. Israel have no right to kidnap people from a boat in international waters. Israel are acting like pirates. Imagine any other country kidnapping a group of unarmed people purely trying to deliver aid to a blockaded and starving population. You are insane!

“In the long term it is something Israel will need to reconcile as part of its history.”
I agree with you here.

I still stand by my perspective and personal experience that there’s a noticeable pattern of selective outrage when it comes to this particular humanitarian crisis. I want to be clear: I’m not denying the severity of the crisis, and I believe both Israel and Hamas bear responsibility. But it’s also clear to me that, for some, there are underlying biases—perhaps unconscious—that shape which suffering gets centered and which doesn't.

you can’t actually think they were “trying to deliver aid”…do you honestly think that was their purpose?

id rather be “kidnapped” by Israel than by Hamas - all unharmed enjoying their sandwiches. Bit insulting to keep calling it kidnapping when you look at what Hamas did to those it kidnapped

I also believe that there’s a lot of information to come out about the fate of the remaining Israeli hostages. The reason there is a reluctance by Hamas to release the remaining hostages is highly likely due to the fact that a lot of them are already dead, but also due that many will have been tortured and abused/raped, and will have a story to tell. Hamas are obviously clinging on to at least some sympathy from the international community, but once their barbarity comes to light, it will become obvious that their aim right from the beginning wasn’t to try to help the Palestinians by highlighting a situation, but was to kill and torture just because they could.

Israel is taking the aid from the flotilla into Gaza. They have actually helped Greta and co. to achieve their aim of delivering aid. Isn't that nice of them?

As for kidnapping? If Greta had just watched her family members be executed in front of her, was shot herself and then driven through a jubilant lynch mob in Gaza, before being operated on without anaesthetic and then kept in a tunnel with her captors threatening to impregnate her - maybe then she could use the word 'kidnapped.'

And I guess Hamas welcoming them would have been a better outcome? I’m sure Greta and co would rather take their chances with Israel than be potential media fodder for Hamas. Hamas would have probably welcomed this high profile woman, kidnapped her and ask for a ransom from Sweden, who I’m sure would be delighted with the position she had put them in…..I think they’re starting to find her behaviour very tedious.

I believe Hamas—along with support from allies like the Islamic Republic of Iran—deliberately sought to provoke a severe response from Israel, knowing that Netanyahu would likely react forcefully. Their goal was to trigger a disproportionate retaliation that could then be used to fuel a global anti-Israel propaganda campaign, while also using hostages as leverage for future negotiations. Meanwhile, Hamas leadership took refuge in tunnels or abroad, in places like Qatar. Unfortunately, sadly and tragically Netanyahu and elements of his right-wing, extremist base responded in exactly the way Hamas likely anticipated—playing into a strategy designed to isolate and delegitimize Israel on the world stage.

They are in jail according to the DM.

In 2010, 13 years before October 7th Israel killed 9 people in a Gaza Flotilla. The only reason Israel are bringing sandwiches are that they know the world's media are watching.
https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/2023/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-of-palestinian-children-detained-by-israeli-military

Israel take child hostages and beat them. July 2023 Save the Children reported 500-700 children detained by Israeli military every year and 4 out of 5 were injured in the process. Israel are the illegal occupiers starving an entire population.

No kidnapped is the correct word here.

Israel are not taking that aid and delivering it. They are deliberately starving a whole population.

Since October 7, Israel has supplied Gaza with:

872K tons of food.
51K tons of water.
86K tons of shelter.
27K tons of medical supplies.
27.5 million liters of fuel.
26K tons of gas.
44K tons of mixed aid.

Remember that next time the media parrot the ICC charges against Netanyahu and Gallant for intentional starvation.

Source: HonestReporting®

One of the things that gets me is that when the IDF oversteps a line there is usually an enquiry to get to the bottom of the issue and deal with it. When Hamas oversteps a line it's just business as usual. The IDF mistakenly shoot civilians mistaking them for Hamas operative (an easy enough mistake when Hamas hides in civilian clothing amongst civilians) there is outcry, but when Hamas deliberately shoots civilians for reasons, nobody bats an eyelid; it's just who they are.

She hasn't been kidnapped; she's been detained for her unlawful actions.

Idiot.

I find this whole stunt extremely distasteful an area that is in crises does not need to deal with a group of activists on a highly publicised so called humanitarian exercise

raise awareness wtf it’s been headline news for over 18 months

there would have been far better ways to try and make sure humanitarian aid reached those who need it anyone with two brain cells know this woudl never have got through

were also safe in the knowledge knowing Israel would intercept them and would not harm them

it’s been lead by a group of people who’s egos and desire for attention are now driving their activism on board what has rightly been reported the selfie yacht

How much aid are the Russians supplying Ukraine with?

yep

Absolutely.

I'm an idiot? What about being on a boat in international waters is unlawful?
Israel is the unlawful party here. They are illegally occupying Palestinian territory and subjecting millions to a blockade.
Creating the highest proportion of child amputees.
Blocking access to food, water and medicine. Thousands of children are dying.

Does Russia occupy Ukraine? Does Russia control all of Ukraines borders and all access to Ukraine? This is a nonsense comparison.

Play stupid games...I'm all out of fucks to give.

I was actually calling Greta an idiot, but if the cap fits...

Meanwhile, maybe read this UN chief receives report of panel of inquiry into Gaza flotilla incident | UN News following the Mavi Marmara which notes that the "Israeli naval blockade on Gaza was imposed as a “legitimate security measure” to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law."

The Palmer report that you provide was made it clear that Israels actions in killing 9 people from the flotilla was unacceptable and its conclusions that the bloackade was lawful have been heavily criticised. https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-legal-status-of-israels-siege-blockade-of-gaza

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip#:~:text=Even%20if%20the%20blockade%20is,Gaza's%20population%20is%20aid%2Ddependent.

The collective punishment of a people for the actions of a few or it's government is a war crime. This blockade has caused over 2 decades of food insecurity.

Let's please bring some compassion for ALL of those suffering in this long standing conflict back into the forefront of our minds.

Israel is luring Palestinians towards aid points and then shooting them.

I've seen enough videos on a daily basis to know that it is Isreal who is starving the Palestinians.

And you know what. It's no longer the time to sit and debate about anything anymore. The most fundamental thing is to stop killing. Stop bombing. Stop sending the drones and the bombs.

Just stop.

The suffering we are seeing is unbearable to watch. They are actually living it.

We've heard it all. Paramedics killed, the car Hind was in was shot at over 300 times. She was 6 years old.

Countless innocent men, women and children are still in Israeli jails taken without reason.

All of this has been proven over and over.

Destroying Hamas isn't going to end anything because you can't stop resistance. And the little boy who lost his entire family will resist.