Thread 25 Starmer - Cheers for a falling out among thieves

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5338688-thread-24-starmer-casting-the-net-wider?

My MP voted for the motion. All the MPs in my area voted for, including a Conservative MP. So pleased this went through.

I am impressed with Tonia Antoniazzi! She is making efforts to ban commercial pimping online and change the law to criminalize the man who pays.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jun/18/uk-politicians-propose-ban-pimping-websites

These are sensible changes which I hope the Government adopts for the Bill.

Also this is very interesting

https://www.politico.eu/article/lefty-keir-starmer-push-echr-reform-uk-tory-party-reform-richard-hermer-nigel-farage/

Because what it suggests is that Labour are ready to make these changes domestically on Article 8 (right to private life) but realistically, unless there is agreement internationally about the scope of the Convention, it will never work. You end up with stuff like Rwanda where you claim it will, but you know it’s unlawful.

All eyes on Shabana Mahmood then.

Rayner v Philp today at PMQs

I think this was also a reaction to this ITV investigation

https://www.itv.com/news/2025-06-16/fugitives-wanted-for-murder-and-child-rape-given-right-to-live-in-britain

Very different to leaving the ECHR to 'stop the boats' or 'PS VAT' that Badenoch is still calling for

That’ll be fun. I get the impression that secretly he quite likes and respects her so it will be interesting seeing that encounter. I’m away so I’m relying on you all to tell me how it goes.

Christ. I’m glad Mahmoud is discussing this. Our authorities seem too credulous. If that’s the case for asylum too at a judicial level then Article 8 can be looked at. This is a qualified right, unlike Article 3 that applied in those cases

I was just looking at the support for the decriminalisation of abortion outside of Parliament.

The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists
Royal College of General Practitioners
Royal College of Anaesthetists
Royal College of Psychiatrists
Royal College of Nursing
Royal College of Midwives
Faculty of Sexual and Reproductive Heathcare
Faculty of Public Health
British Society of Abortion Care Providers
British Maternal and Fetal Medicine Society
Women's Aid
etc etc.

Their joint statement -

https://www.rcog.org.uk/media/00sjehln/multiagency-call-for-urgent-action-by-parliament-to-protect-women-s-essential-reproductive-rights.pdf

This is what the Tories should have done, if they were serious.

It's therefore a conclusion that they weren't.

As always, once you find an error in one part of a system, there will be others.

Philp is just an angry man shouting rubbish and then shouts even louder

His voice gets higher and higher but I put that down to his tie being too tight. That was an impressive PMQs performance for Rayner today.

Did you notice his shirt collars sticking up

Anyone here on threads? Something weird going on. Posts duplicated repeatedly with different user names. It’s making it impossible to use.

I’ve noticed duplicate posts on some threads, I’m on mu iPad & it keeps reloading/being very slow also the sign in pop up thingy appears sometimes if I want to see all OP posts very irritating.

I agree with banning advertising prostitution online (or indeed in print). And so-called review sites as highlighted by Harriet Harman a few years ago.

There have been mixed views from organisations supporting prostitutes about what the impact would be of criminalising the man who pays, as to whether it would make the women safer or not.

Cats ruled out as Parliamentary pest controllers - BBC News https://share.google/LMp88QNIijxP7xkKJ

😾😾😾

Mumsnet is not nice at the moment. The decriminalisation of abortion threads and the Israel/Iran threads are awful in parts. I expect a wave of anti-PIP threads soon.🙄

But on a positive note there really are some amazing Labour female MPs doing sterling work for other women.

I want one of them to be the next leader

www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/19/natalie-fleet-mp-on-grooming-statutory-and-fighting-back

Yes I read that and was moved by her story and courage.

I do hope she gets a bit more confidence though, saying stuff like the Commons isn’t for her, clapping instead of hear, hear, well one the place definitely is for her because she’s there and doing great work, and secondly, a few hear hears shouldn’t put anyone off from contributing

Just thought I'd share this official confirmation that the Telegraph is now the Sun with pretensions of grandeur.

Just to tout the Sopel book again he is really interesting on media bias and has a chapter about the BBC and about GB News. The bit on the BBC and how they have to both sides everything even when one side is clearly wrong or a teeny tiny minority voice is very interesting and would resonate with posters here.

I totally agree that women like Fleet are the future of Labour. She is even from the Red Wall/ Anderson land. The Tories would be terrified of her,as they are of Rayner and Phillips.

Good interview and as aspirations go this is a good one to have -

My absolute dream is that, by the end of this period in government, I’ll be able to tell any woman who comes to me that she’ll have an MP who believes her, a police force that will understand, each with a designated specially trained officer, a court system without a backlog and space in prison for perpetrators to serve a full sentence.”

Is that Strangeland?

There have been mixed views from organisations supporting prostitutes about what the impact would be of criminalising the man who pays, as to whether it would make the women safer or not.

When you have defined "payment" and indeed "sex" then you might be able to move forwards. (Remember I am all about the definitions).

Whilst some people may see the difference between a creep in a car waving a wad around to get their wad attended too sounds straightforwards, how do you deal with the woman who accepts a diamond necklace as a "present" for "being nice" for an evening ?

And when this came around in the 70s, my DM was very scathing that quite a few marriages might be illegal.

And in 2025 you'd have the added complication of gender. Are we saying that only men "paying" for "sex" from women are able to be prosecuted ?

Yes, I did say "sex" twice. Because that's the other definition you're going to have to work on. Because some prostitution may not involve any sex whatsoever in the fetish or kink world.

I've always felt we should try and use the law to make things easier, not more complicated.

She’s cut from the same cloth as Rayner. These are the women I want to see in senior positions. Resilient and real.