Why do our kids hate secondary school?

[noblegiraffe]

Together with the news from PISA that our teens are the unhappiest in Europe, new research shows that engagement and enjoyment of school falls off a cliff once kids leave primary and start secondary.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-the-school-pupils-who-disengage-during-year-7-dip/

https://www.thedeveloperlive.co.uk/opinion/opinion/why-do-uk-teens-have-among-the-lowest-life-satisfaction-in-the-oecd

"It found that while engagement declines through school “in almost every country”, the magnitude “is more pronounced in England”, suggesting disengagement is not just a symptom of age “but something atypical” that is happening in England.

There has been lots and lots of discussion about the impact that social media is having on teen mental health - what about the impact of having to go to secondary schools that they clearly don't like?

Not read the full thread, but think this is fairly accurate, based on my daughter’s school. She is a high achiever, but can still see it’s very much a sausage factory, and the kids that don’t make the grade, for a variety of reasons, have to fight to get the support they need…

education can and should be fun, it should be exciting to learn new material and realize how this information will help you in life, be it towards your goal of further education and specialization or inching closer to a career.

Or even just learning stuff for the joy of learning something new even if it doesn’t have an intrinsic link to your future plans. Part of the issue is that every single piece of learning is aimed at a test or exam, rather than just because it might be interesting to know. I’ve never used the knowledge gained in history in my career, but I’m a much more rounded person for having done it. I’m better for having studied music, I still rely on my secondary languages getting around on holiday. Purely teaching to the test sucks any joy out of learning.

But where is the balance? Yes some times you just need to grit your teeth and get through it, but that should then be balanced by things that are lighter, more enjoyable and catch your interest. When every subject is a grind something has gone wrong.

I hated maths with every fibre of my being, but knew I had to do it. It was tolerable because I also knew I’d have time in music to decompress and enjoy the class, and had an English teacher that brought the subject alive for me. When every subject is reduced to what’s in the test, and the teachers look as bored and fed up as their students there’s really nowhere to go.

Well yes, but if you want more lightness and less grinding towards the exam, you have to accept worse academic results.

A lack of actual autonomy.
Pupils aren’t given any autonomy as there are some who abuse it.
Teachers have little autonomy as the SLT/Trust are only interested in results, and don’t trust teachers to achieve them without utter prescription of all processes and interactions.
Parents reduce the school’s autonomy to tackle behaviour, discipline and bullying by constantly and endlessly challenging every decision, which sucks away authority and all available time (and more).
The National Curriculum is joyless, reductive and not fit for purpose, and allows no time to explore, enjoy and develop any breadth or depth of knowledge. It’s like a chain of powerlessness that no one is willing to break.

No one trusts anyone to do a decent job, so it has devolved into petty bureaucratic oversight, with the almost entire loss of actual learning to oversee. SATs are an absolute disgrace, GCSEs have become an endurance test and the first glimmers of being able to foster truly independent enquiry isn’t until A Level. By then it’s often too late.

Now let’s see - poorer academic results or happier kids, which one would I choose? If it’s not possible to have happy, healthy kids and have academic achievement there’s something quite wrong either in our expectations of what constitutes academic achievement, the way we test kids knowledge or the standard of education teachers can provide.

DS2 wasn't struggling in English because he was too lazy to try and engage properly. My only regret is not getting him a tutor sooner, but he got a good enough English grade to go on to do the subjects he's able in.
He's loved A Levels and really flourished. I thought he had some kind of Stockholm Syndrome when he insisted he was staying on there, but I'm glad I was wrong to doubt his choice

My DD14 bought a book, I wasn’t with her at the time and it was an adult book - nothing inappropriate but with adult themes. My DD took it in to show her English teacher, who told her it was inappropriate and she shouldn’t be reading it. She then messaged me to say my DD had bought an adult book and was I aware she should be reading more age appropriate books.

The book had no sex or violence, just an adult themed story. My DD has complex learning need, she also has dyslexia. Rather than affirm her for choosing and buying a book, and reading it my DD was left feeling she had done something wrong. Utterly sucking the joy out of something she was previously pleased with. That’s nothing about exams and everything to do with the teachers attitude.

I agree. There is no grace period. They go from schools of around 350 pupils to well over 1000; from one classroom day in day out to several classrooms every day. they are barked at and given detention for pathetic reasons like forgetting a pencil or taking off a blazer. They suddenly feel invisible and herded like cattle.

Secondary school is not conducive to learning. It's aggressive and noisy and ridden with pointless rules. I was talking to a friend the other day who is a professor at a top university. I'm nowhere near her level but also work in academia at a well known uni. We both discovered we played truant from secondary school all the time, in order to learn. She'd sneak off to the public library, I'd sneak home and hide in my room to read and study. I have another friend who works in high level computer security who also did this. Three geeky, hard working pupils who felt they could only progress if they didn't turn up for school.

Exactly. What is the stupid no trainers rule? My friend's daughter used to go arrive at school with freezing, drenched feet because girls had to wear silly ballet pumps with skirts.

I was watching a programme about Chinese schools, where they wear cotton jersey tracksuits and trainers all day. Tee shirts if it's hot. Comfortable to move in. No differentiation between boys and girls. Just practical clothes.

I was talking to a neighbour's child who is mid GCSE's. He has ADHD so is allowed extra time in exams, in order to have a 'break.' He told me he is not allowed to get up and stretch or move around during the 'break.' He just gets his work covered by a sheet of paper and he has to remain seated, doing nothing for five minutes. No help at all to a hyperactive teen. A few star jumps would release his energy and have him able to focus but rules are rules.

From my experience of school, the other children were what made it hell. DC's managing ok, but dislikes it, says there's only one other child in the class who isn't rude, loud, unpleasant, causing disruption and trouble.

Imagine the exact same curriculum and exams taught in a primary sized school - it would be entirely different. Teachers and pupils would know everyone, all the behaviour and personality quirks would be understood and manageable, students families would be familiar and more scope to be engaged with them - everything would be so different. Obviously too expensive but would it be cost effective if it improved engagement/ results/ wellbeing/ self esteem? More scope to choose subjects/qualifications to suit the individual. Lower crime and health problems, higher employment. Calmer more engaged, valued kids.
the current mega sized sausage factory/prison/ car park type schools we have now are soul destroying as we can see in our poor kids. Makes me weep.

motivated children will be willing to put in the effort.

That’s not the rules. Candidates can leave the room during a rest break if accompanied by an invigilator and are free to do however many star jumps they want to outside.

My dc are only in primary and it’s already a struggle to get them to school in the mornings. I am not looking forward to secondary. Life is much harder when your dc don’t enjoy school

The schools in our area have a huge problem recruiting and retaining staff.
For most kids, by the time they leave primary nearly every teacher in the school knows them. By that i mean actually knows the child, their names, interests, strengths etc. They start comp and obviously they're starting again. Our daughter accepted this, she's quiet until she gets to know people but was understanding that it would take time. In year 7 she had 2 form tutors because the first one left. The Headteacher resigned at the end of year 7 and the deputy took over. In year 8 she had a new form tutor for a term then subs until the end of the year. The Headteacher was replaced that year too and a hew "leadership team" brought in. Year 9, new form tutor until October then told this one was leaving at Xmas so she moved to a different form and new tutor. Baring in mind this is options year and the form tutors don't actually know any of their form. In year 9 alone so far she's had 4 maths teachers, 2 English teachers and 2 music teachers. A lot of the teachers are not teaching their specific subject so just following curriculum without their own knowledge of the subject. This is horrendous for all kids but higher achievers aren't pushed at all because the teachers don't know individual ability. Our daughter is bored and fed up now and going into year 10 in September. You aren't going to get enthusiastic engaged kids without investing time and effort, that would be the same for any situation. It's no different to a workplace that treats you like a number. At one point this year our daughter had 2 maths teachers and on her report was given a 49% score for maths. The teacher we spoke to said this was good but our daughter was really upset because maths is her best subject. They'd had 2 tests (to put them in sets for next year) and when I questioned the mark we found the other teacher hadn't added her 48% mark for the 2nd test so her mark was actually 97% because none of them knew her this wasn't even questioned by the school 😳 I don't think a single person would be enthusiastic about anything with such minimal interest from others in return.

A school wouldn't have compulsory ballet pumps. That will be what the dc chose

So teachers feel the need to teach up to the last minute ti justify the battle parents have to get their kids in.

Its not that "teachers feel the need to teach up to the last minute".
Teachers are instructed to by SLT.
But I do agree that there is no wind down time in schools anymore.

In order for this change to happen you would have to change not only how schools are run/work, but also how they are used by government (league tables, Media etc.) and parental expectations in what schools should provide.

Except @FrippEnos 20 other OECD countries managed to strike a better balance.
It’s not reinventing the wheel it’s copying the education ideas used in a country or countries that score better.

They should do simlar here . Or even the same as primary school ie trousers/skirt polo top jumper. Secondary schools kids look scruffy in blazers shirts. Won't happen though.schools think thry loose control of kids wear something comfortable.

Totally agree surely happy children would make better results. I fo t understand why children are treated so badly sone of it boarders on abuse.

Forgetting equipment is a massive PITA. I give kids 1 days grace but if they turn up again without equipment I will sanction it. We have a shop on site selling pens etc at cost price, they could ask a friend in form time to lend them a pen. You start the lesson and instantly a hand goes up - no pen. Ok come and get one. Restart the lesson- another hand up. Then you have the interruption of John shouting to Harry that he’s got a pen and before you know it , he’s thrown it across the room. Add in Tim asking to go to the toilet even though he’s just had break, Claire asking to fill her water bottle and then Joe appears five minutes late. All of these things on their own don’t sound like a big deal but the cumulative effect is infuriating.

Another massive difference is my DC's have a classroom. They have a dedicated class teacher (or in my DC2's case two teachers, one Mon/Tues, the other Wed, Thurs &Fri). The majority of their lessons are in that classroom, no other class uses it. They only move for music, science (labs), D&T (workshops), sport and IT.
Any issues go through the class teacher, so they have a contact point as do we.