Why do our kids hate secondary school?

[noblegiraffe]

Together with the news from PISA that our teens are the unhappiest in Europe, new research shows that engagement and enjoyment of school falls off a cliff once kids leave primary and start secondary.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-the-school-pupils-who-disengage-during-year-7-dip/

https://www.thedeveloperlive.co.uk/opinion/opinion/why-do-uk-teens-have-among-the-lowest-life-satisfaction-in-the-oecd

"It found that while engagement declines through school “in almost every country”, the magnitude “is more pronounced in England”, suggesting disengagement is not just a symptom of age “but something atypical” that is happening in England.

There has been lots and lots of discussion about the impact that social media is having on teen mental health - what about the impact of having to go to secondary schools that they clearly don't like?

Sorry that happened to you @Badbadbunny I also had an awful time at school and was the worst time of my life.

You hear over and over SN kids thrive at primary and fall apart at secondary but its always blamed on the parents as parent blame is free. Never how can schools change? And teachers who mock special needs kids for being special are the worst. Trouble is the ones who care leave.

DSs school went can't meet needs when doing my chemotherapy, such a caring place. And not one teacher made contact. He called it the place were no-one cares and he was right. Primary school the old staff still ask after him. But lets blame the parents, anyone but schools which are perfect. Despite record levels of NEET and record number of kids out of school. Yep parents wanted their kids NEET.

@Badbadbunny
So are you blaming primary schools who ali’s kids to dream and have (perhaps unrealistic) goals?
or secondary schools who try and teach them the groundwork of the subjects hence quash their dreams because they might have to do a bit of work they don’t like?
or all schools?

whilst the parents sit there helpless for a decade having no influence over their children, whom they chose to have, give them phones, tell them they are special and discourage any hard work because schools are just dream squashing factories turning out cloned children sheep?

its a combination of things I would imagine.

Friends that live in the Netherlands/germany recently watched that Netflix show (adolescence) and they remarked on how ridiculous the school episode was. I had to inform them that I personally went to as school much much worse than the one depicted. I have schools in my town that ofsted inspectors are afraid to visit. This surely must stem from social economics, poverty/bad parenting/lack of access to culture etc.

Environment outside of school- when I'm in mainland Europe in the summer I see children in groups out and about cycling, swimming, generally enjoying themselves out and about with their friends. They use the trains and they go to the outdoor swimming pools.... I don't know about all of England but I know I don't have any decent facilities near me. The ones that do exist require a car and cost a fortune. I have a teenage son and I can tell you that his friends have no money.

Constant testing, inadequate buildings, art programs stripped back or non existent in some areas.

I mean look at everything in all areas of life here. All of our public services are completely drained and most towns look run down. kids notice this as they age.

But there are hardly any jobs where you experience the same level of pressure you do during your GCSEs/A-levels.

I’m not sure I agree with this, there are many jobs that have concentrated period of stress and many more that come with consistently high stress levels. They don’t usually also have constant change, expectations of different teachers and inescapable bullying.

There is bullying in all sorts of work places
Feelings of no choice or escape because you have bills to pay
4/5 weeks holiday a year
Commute stress if it makes you late
A feeling of Groundhog Day
Having to put on a pleasant face when you want to do anything but
Snatched lunches at your desk
An 8 hour day not 6
No friends there
No one caring about your development
Not learning anything much no
No facilities to explore your artistic side
No days you get your parents in to see what you are doing or they are able to email your boss when you are unhappy
Feeling you should be paid more

And then coming home to do the work there

But school is dreadful
They make you do a few exams
You get 6 weeks off in the summer, the bastards
They include you in season performances
They encourage you to read books you like!
They like to include a couple of hours exercise in the week the utter horrors
They produce reports on your development and wellbeing

What a fucking dreadful place school is and those teachers planning lessons, organising trips, staying late to talk to your parents
Bastards the lot of them

I’m not sure I agree with this, there are many jobs that have concentrated period of stress and many more that come with consistently high stress levels.

I guess we agree to disagree. I've worked in the City in a very high pressure job and still have recurring a nightmare where I miss my Maths GCSE! I was completely convinced that if I didn't do well in my GCSEs / A-levels then I was a complete failure and my life was basically over. I'm sure many teenagers still feel the same.

As an adult you can rationalise things better. And you have far more control over your circumstances.

They go directly from one teacher all day for all subjects, who has a relationship with the kids, knows their skills in the round and is generally in tune with them, to a full on timetable of teachers who don't see them for more than an hour at a time possibly only once a week.

It's bound to have an impact.

A more phased approach where they were settled in with half-day sessions in each area for the first term could be an improvement.

I've wondered if it would be better, at least maybe year 7 and 8 if they could have fewer teachers, like one for the arts, one for humanities, one for STEM. It might make it seem like less of an adjustment from primary.

I don't claim to know how this would be implemented at all though.

Teenagers have always hated secondary school. It’s nothing new.

I blame Michael Gove.

Secondary school is so much bigger and a culture shock. No one has time for you, and if they do it's superficial. From one teacher to many, some of whom can barely be bothered to learn your name.

The one I went to was the full gamut of violent and deprived kids (the main perpetrators of physical bullying and sexual assault), to the more academically inclined and middle-class ones (social psychological mean girls type bullying).

I loved primary, felt safe and happy there and for the most part enjoyed my time. But as soon as I hit secondary school, bam, the depression started.

I agree with this.

Let teachers teach, they are the ones who know their students.

I think it’s the same reason prisoners have very poor mental health - they’re locked up all day with a bunch of people who range from lacking social skills to downright violent/abusive, and the people who are paid to control this situation have mostly left or want to leave.

exactly this - very well put across

I personally think the US middle school, high school thing is better to split the age groups up. We chuck tiny year 7's into this huge bear pit.
My DD's secondary does nothing social or fun apart from the odd year trip.
It's also an ancient school with one water fountain and locked loos. It's boiling in the summer and cold in the winter as the windows are ill fitting.
Then you have the insistance on classes they hate for 3 years like drama or music (if they hate it, why continue) they should be doing options in year 9. It's a waste of their time.

Remember it is parents who complain when kids do fun activities the week before Christmas, because it's a 'waste of time'.

It is going to be very hard to argue that we should step back and allow children to do worse at school.

Remember it is parents who complain when kids do fun activities the week before Christmas, because it's a 'waste of time'.

I don’t think it’s a waste of time. There used to be an acceptance that the last week or so kids would do fun stuff, there was also an acceptance that kids might not attend for the last few days. The drive for attendance regardless changed that understanding to where if I’m fighting to get my child to school there has to be a reason for the fight. So teachers feel the need to teach up to the last minute ti justify the battle parents have to get their kids in. The whole ethos and social contract has shifted and none of it benefits kids.

Exactly this - you can't fine parents for taking their children out a few days before the end of term if all the kids are missing is tidying the classroom and watching DVDs.

“Schools should do more fun stuff with kids, otherwise school is an endless drag that ruins their mental health”

”Fun stuff at school is a waste of time, I’m not going to send my kid in for that”

Can't educational activities be fun?

This is one of the problems with our school system, the belief that play is useless time filler and learning only happens when children are sitting at desks facing the front.

education can and should be fun, it should be exciting to learn new material and realize how this information will help you in life, be it towards your goal of further education and specialization or inching closer to a career.
personally some of the sizes of the schools seems problematic along with the prison like regulations.

It’s not that I won’t send my kid in for fun activities, it’s that having some wiggle room in the endless attendance discussion doesn’t go amiss. I don’t force either child into school, they both know it’s important and both go but knowing I can take them out on the last day of term without cries that I’m compromising their education is helpful.

Teachers lost the “every day is important” when they argued every second was useful teaching time. Some of my best memories of high school was the more relaxed time leading up to holidays. I went in because it was good to see a more relaxed side of the teaching staff and I enjoyed spending more social time with friends. Schools being a bit pragmatic about attendance on those few days helped parents who wanted to stop the grind a couple of days early for whatever reason. Kids have lost that experience, teaching staff don’t get any let up and parents are hamstrung by hopeless attendance expectations. No one has won here.

No, the idea that education should be fun just isn’t true and it gives us the tiktok generation who are incapable of putting a bit of hard graft into mastering something because they switch off the minute it isn’t super engaging.