Why do our kids hate secondary school?

[noblegiraffe]

Together with the news from PISA that our teens are the unhappiest in Europe, new research shows that engagement and enjoyment of school falls off a cliff once kids leave primary and start secondary.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-the-school-pupils-who-disengage-during-year-7-dip/

https://www.thedeveloperlive.co.uk/opinion/opinion/why-do-uk-teens-have-among-the-lowest-life-satisfaction-in-the-oecd

"It found that while engagement declines through school “in almost every country”, the magnitude “is more pronounced in England”, suggesting disengagement is not just a symptom of age “but something atypical” that is happening in England.

There has been lots and lots of discussion about the impact that social media is having on teen mental health - what about the impact of having to go to secondary schools that they clearly don't like?

I went to secondary school in the 1970’s and they were shit then with lots of verbal bullying.
The difference was any physical bullying was dealt with, you got the cane. Yes I am aware of the irony of that.
Then you could go home and could get away from the bullies, no social media to worry about.

And then the question of whether success is really children getting slightly higher exam results at the expense of their mental health? What is best for the future of the country (and its population)?

If they were taught in different ways, with less pressure, and more appropriate subjects/exams, then you could have both, i.e. better educational outcomes without worsening mental health. We put far too much pressure on them via an antiquated school/exam system.

I agree, it rather does beg the question of what cost is there to our miserable young people actually doing quite ‘well’ in GCSEs if they’re also the most unhappy compared to all other European countries?

Never a day goes by where I don’t thank my lucky stars my children don’t go to school and they are happy, thriving, social and love learning. I wish all children and young people could feel this way about life and learning. As an ex teacher it really does sadden me.

Primary there was one main teacher who knew the class well. There was a strong community spirit, help the weakest and noone left behind, parents kept informed so alerted early to issues.

Secondary very dog eat dog with no community spirit. What works for most and SN kids teased / bullied and excluded and hidden. Almost encouraged to have mental health issues, easiest way to get attention in a school if you aren't bright at subjects the school values (English, Drama). Very little recognition for any achievements outside English, Drama, Sports, maybe SLT from these subjects. Lots of punishments. Very little kindness. Bigger. My SN kids always called it the place were nobody cares for secondary after having a relatively good time at primary. A lot of delays in getting SN support in secondary and refusal of support without diagnoses which can take years to get via camhs and in meantime these kids going into crisis. And are either too anxious for school or school declare can't meet needs and LA if bright generally provide almost nothing. Kids then end up neet and costing far more than the education support would have cost. Little communication with parents to alert to issues and when it is it's from the schools view not the child's as in this is a problem for the school whereas primary was how can we help. Secondary is all about survival of the fittest and stuff the rest. Exams not an issue here and social media not an issue. My non SN child was much happier at more relaxed secondary, SN one could not manage any but had he had a school like primary who have thrived. There's a complete gaslighting when you say children have mental health issues from school and people need to acknowledge it happens before progress can be made. My SN kid would come home in tears as teacher had laughed at him for not bringing in a pen in front of class and told class he didn't matter. It was part of his SN. Primary would have done something, secondary wanted kids like him out and to be exams factory and Ofsted outstanding.

If i could take my children out of secondary school tomorrow I would.

Children ae treated awfully at school. Some are boarding on abusive mentally and emotionally. Under the name of getting them ready for working world. Adults are not treated like that.

When my son had issues he was part time, time table. He was meant to go in at 1.30pm after lunch. But ds went at 1pm. ( his way of showing he was trying) he thought it was a positive thing. But nope he gets a massive telling off by Ms x . She even emailed me to complain he was in school. Another time he went missing in school and they found him in the toilets self harming. Same Ms x rang me shouting down the phone at me.

That is so sad. An adult wouldn’t get treated that way 😞

What is stopping you taking him out of there?

Kids aren't allowed time off with mental health at secondary even though an adult would be, put as unauthorised. Toilets have doors taken off so if kid is being bullied at school there's nowhere to hide and schools deny. Lockdown didn't help SN kids especially those with no EHCP and they had no school then on off school and then support taken away to keep schools open and prioritised the staff and NHS kids. Survival of the fittest again.

Secondary also did not listen to the child or parent whereas primary did. There was always a lets give him less exams, let's dumb this down to an incredibly bright SN boy. He hated it, asd does not mean learning difficulties. What he wanted was teachers to understand and be kind, to not make fun of him if he forgot something or was too anxious to turn on his computer. He wanted to feel part of school and that he was wanted there, he wanted people to congratulate his maths achievements. He very much wanted the exams and never went on social media.

He left in year 9. He's basically had no education since then because of his mental health and refused etc. He's 18 now all I can do is hope he will go back to some form of education/courses at some point.

So sorry it did that to him 😞

That's the same as my SN child Travelling. No education provided since y10 and now 18. Second highest SATS in primary. Loved learning. Such a waste.

He's doing better compared to what he was. I am worried about sending my other ds to secondary he had SEN and autism.EHCP. I can't hope education though. Because of my own learning difficulties. Nkt educated enough etc and I would probably damage his education and local authority would be on to me. My dd seems ok on school hoping g same for ds . Time will tell I guess.

My ND child is now learning through an online school. We're picking things up again after almost a year out of education but they can learn at their own pace, in their own clothes, and we're feeling optimistic. We managed to get funding for it through an EHCP but it was a fairly brutal battle (for no real reason - the fees are lower than many of the SEN requirements would have cost in their old school).

It’s tragic.
But if you listen to the government all that matters is attendance and their new thing is “children need grit” to face life’s ups and downs. No mention of the fact that the education system contributes to their struggles 🙄

I'm sorry that happend to your ds . He's obviously bright. Its pretty awful. If our kids don't fit on a neat box they are written off/bullied etc even by adults.

I feel for you. Home education is possible if you’re facing your own difficulties but you’d have to know your rights and responsibilities. You’d have to get support from home education charities and support groups and talk through how you could approach it. Recommend HEFA (home education for all) on facebook as a starting point and the Education Otherwise website. Much love 🧡

Yeah I know of education otherwise. I was told about it when I was encouraged to deregister older ds. If sen ds is not happy I will look into it for definite.

To face life's ups and downs . Real life in adult world are not treated like that.

It's a bit ironic if our results exam wise are better but we have this high number of young adults unable to work because of poor mental health. I wonder if the school experience is contributing here.

and their new thing is “children need grit” to face life’s ups and downs.

Children, and adults, do need grit - resilience is an important quality to have but resilience isn’t gained through constant adversity, which school is for too many kids.

Children, and adults, do need grit - resilience is an important quality to have but resilience isn’t gained through constant adversity

Exactly. Yes they should be able to resolve disagreements with friends, they should be able to cope with not being the best at everything, they should learn to persist at something they find difficult. But there are hardly any jobs where you experience the same level of pressure you do during your GCSEs/A-levels. And as an adult you're not expected to put up with low level bullying, sexual harassment or misogyny. The kinds of things children experience in school would end up at a tribunal in a workplace.

I agree, especially with "nowhere to hide". I was mercilessly bullied throughout secondary school, not just name calling, but physical assaults, fag burns, property stolen and damaged, etc. Teachers couldn't care less.

I'd try to hide, but the toilets were a no go, as that's where the other kids would smoke, so they'd kick you out if you dared go into their space!

I eventually found the answer. I joined the stage lighting crew, doing the lighting for school plays, presentations, etc., and part of that was that we were allowed access under the stage which is where all the equipment was stored. Finally, I had a "safe" place I could hide, not just at breaks/lunch, but also when I was truanting from lessons due to being sat next to bullies (teachers wouldn't change seating plans!). Funny thing was that a couple of others doing stage lighting also did the same, and sometimes there'd be two or three of us under the stage!

It really shouldn't be like that, but if teachers won't deal with the bullying, the poor kids being bullied have to do what it takes to get through the day.

Or it’s parents telling their kids they are the most special of all babies ever born and the kids grow up thinking they deserve special

or it’s social media making them feel they are a failure if they aren’t holidaying in the Maldives at age 20

or influencers telling them it’s someone else’s fault they aren’t holidaying so inept they haven’t got a girlfriend

or their parents haven’t explained no matter what you do you start at the bottom and work up

or being told uni is just to accrue debt so social mobility has stalled

or that life in the uk after school is stalling for young adults, job market uncertain, housing incredibly expensive, unable to freely move across Europe like the young could a decade ago

or older generations telling them their ideas or dreams are woke

if you have adults around you saying algebra is pointless, what’s the point in knowing a Shakespeare play, or whatever, then see that a handful of GcSEs do help your next step you might get resentful. But parents, adults, humans, instead of admitting, yeah we fucked up perhaps we should have encouraged you to do your homework, instead they blame schools, teachers, the government, anyone else. Whilst you see friends go to college, move on, get jobs, go to uni, you are likely to become withdrawn, jealous, feel left behind.

But let’s blame teachers, the one set of people trying to encourage our teens to gain the qualifications that are there. It can’t possibly be anything else.

More likely primary schools who tell them they "can be anything they want to be" so kids get the wrong impression they're going to be the next David Beckham, or the next Elon Musk, or the next Britney Spears just because they are good at sport, music, tech, etc. Then the poor sods get to secondary school and all the joy and enthusiasm is sucked out of them!