12yo DD has been chatting older boys & adults online

[cwfen]

DD has a nice group.of friends she plays Minecraft with online. I know them all in real life.

However I've just discovered that in the last couple of months she's stopped playing with them and now has a group of online friends she doesn't know in real life, and which includes a 19 year old, 16 year olds and 15 year olds - all male. She has her own Minecraft server I think and it looks like that's where these people have come from.

She's been lying to me about their names, their age and where they live (pretending they're all one person she knows in real life who is 14),

Besides the 19 year old, I'm relieved to see most of the conversation is related to the game and general chit chat, nothing obviously dodgy. The conversation with the 19 year old is totally inappropriate, although I think it mostly went over her head.

Also, she's "acting up" trying to act older than her age to impress them, which is worrying.

My biggest issue is the lying, and that she plainly doesn't understand the risks.

I've taken her phone and laptop off her, and she's not getting them back for the foreseeable.

But what now? I don't want to just tell her off. This is too serious.

It's about her keeping safe, and she's obviously been stringing us along every bloody time we've had a conversation about this stuff and doesn't get it all.

I need her to really understand for herself why this isn't on. Is it realistic to think that might be possible? What now? WWYD?

Lying to your mother for 2 months while engaging in seriously risky behaviour is not without consequences.

She has been manipulated by a groomer. You are still not understanding the full implications of this. She is the victim.

If anyone can recommend any more videos or other content suitable for a 12 year old on this topic, I'd be grateful to hear about it.

I don't know what else I can say to convince people that of course I understand this?

That's the whole point of the thread.

This. Calling her duplicitous when you haven’t bothered to put all appropriate protections in place - the most basic being to allow her on such sites in the first place - isn’t on.

I'm not asking for advice about going to the police as that's pretty clear cut to me - I know how to do it, I don't need to seek any advice. I know to start with CEOP, for example. And, it's not particularly something I want to discuss in any detail here.

I'm focussing on how to approach it with DD on this thread as that's the tricker aspect for me, and the one I would appreciate advice about.

I'm going to ignore any more posts telling me I don't get it, or I need to go to the police because:

1. I'm pretty certain I do get it
2. I am planning to speak to the police. Badgering me will make no difference either way

You say you are asking for advice but when people have pointed out she shouldn't be in any trouble at all. This whole thing is all on you. You get defensive.

When you took the tech away you should have made it clear how inappropriate it was for an adult to discuss things like suicide with her. How it's not her fault any of this happened and should never have been her responsibility.

Admit that you made the mistake.

And go to the police together for advice, they can sign post to what to do next.

But you have instead decided to punish and wait. So what else do you want?

You only have to look at the threads in Relationships to see grown women who get addicted to chatting with men they have never met and how they get addicted to the feelings it gives them. It will likely be similar. I'm sure she believes she is aware but at her age she can't be. You know all the practical steps. She will thank you for this one day. I was not allowed out except for school many years ago for several months for something I wrote in my diary calling my mum an old bag. She went mad saying my Dad had been the only man she had ever been with. I had no idea what she was even talking about! To me it was just words. I had also written about a boy who kissed me and I was worried if I might be pregnant. Totally laughable now but in those days we didn't know! It's a minefield today. Good luck!

@cwfen
Giving her consequences or punishing her (which is virtually the same thing by the way) isn’t going to make it any more likely that she will tell you about anything in the future. so far you have taught her that if she is in a bad situation, you will give her “consequences” for being involved.
putting controls on her devices is reasonable. Taking away her things and interrogating her as to why she did something is not, it’s victim blaming.
this isn’t her responsibility at all, it never was no matter what internet safety course she took and she shouldn’t be made to feel that it is. She is a child. Do you understand what a child is

When you are trying to get her to take responsibility for this in any way, you are victim blaming her and telling her that if something like this happens again it’s her fault for not being aware or following advice. She doesn’t have any responsibility for this at all, not one ounce of it

1. I have taken away her devices as I believe it to be in her vest interests at this point. Not to punish her. Currently, it's not safe for her to be on them. She understands that even if you don't.

1. No idea where you get the idea from I've interrogated her. I haven't, nor do I plan to.

“Currently, it's not safe for her to be on them”
Yeah, not without the controls that you were supposed to put on the device in the first place. Where are your consequences for allowing her to have unsupervised access to the web.

Nope, not trying to get her to take responsibility for it.

You are misreading the situation or my posts if you believe this.

Being informed of how abusers operate isn't victim blaming. It's the kind of extreme position you get from the likes of Jessica Taylor (an abusive person herself if the tattle life thread on her has any truth in it) who says that educating young girls on how abusers operate is victim blaming.

It really isn't. You can both be aware of the tactics abusive people employ AND not to blame if you don't recognise them. But, having that knowledge just might keep you safe.

Knowledge is power.

My consequence is I need to spend time working out how best to deal with the situation then act on it.

A consequence is not always a punishment. I think people are confused about that.

Anyway, I'm going to take a break from this thread as it's really not very helpful to debate the toss about whether I'm punishing or victim blaming my daughter or not.

If anyone has any relevant experience or helpful advice I'd love to hear it.

Earlier on in the thread, you said you wanted to speak to her about why she felt internet safety advice and the rules didn’t apply to her and wanted to ask her why she lied to you. That puts her in a awkward position, how could she answer that?
you wonder why she did all of this? But my question to you is why did she do what? She has done nothing wrong. Lying to you was a consequence of being groomed and not something she should be made to feel responsible for. The answer to all of this is obvious, she was groomed. This is infuriating and I need to come away from this now

This

Spot on

Perhaps you need to consider how you are behaving and the messages you are sending to your daughter.

Suggestions that you need to go to the police are "badgering" and will not change your behaviour. You know what you need to do - but you havent done it, dont intend to do it anytime soon, if at all, and will ignore anyone saying something you dont like. Your daughter did things she knew she shouldnt do, she hasnt listened to your warnings about internet security. She didnt change her behaviour when you took the phone away, she got up early to contact these people.

She has learnt her behaviour from you. When you show some self-awareness maybe you'll know how to get through to your daughter.

I had a friend from secondary that would play a lot of video games. She never really mentioned any particular names. I just knew she liked playing them. May years later she was stabbed in the middle of the night. She had an online relationship with a boy she was playing games with from America and their relationship soured. Apparently he sent her gifts and when she broke up with him, he wanted them returned but she refused. He plotted to come all the way to England and brought knives with him to kill her. Luckily her sibling fought him off.

I was good friends with this girl and she never once mentioned him. Be careful who you let your children play with online.

I don’t have personal experience with a child but maybe some analogous experience with someone close
to me who was the victim of a romance scam. Had I not witnessed it with my own eyes I would not have believed this usually capable responsible person would fall for such obvious manipulation.

The thing that I feel is similar is that they had all the technical knowledge of how such scams work but they felt it did not apply in their case as this was ‘different’ ‘real love’ ‘do you think I am a fool?’ Disapproval from the family just led to them being pushed more into the arms of the scammer. It was a nightmare. In the end police intervention was what made a difference and they were devastated and deeply depressed when the scales fell from their eyes and hugely needs their real family and friends to get through.

I guess I wonder if anything you say will just be dismissed as ‘not understanding’. I think perhaps what she actually needs is an external person ie police. The suicide talk from the ‘19y old’ is extremely concerning and designed to rope her in to feeling responsible for him. I think that person is probably a criminal and not a misguided kid. It all has echoes of our experience. My family member lied to me about stuff like not sending them money, stopping contact. It was like an addiction. I don’t see it as being their fault they were the victim of a criminal at a vulnerable time but boy was I angry at their behaviour at the time. I did not understand how powerful the manipulation is.

i think you are getting a hard time here. You’ve owned up to messing up, we all do it. It does happen. We are human. My parents messed up and blamed me for it. Shamed me and our relationship now is damaged beyond repair.
Taking time to think about what to say to her is the right thing. Not over reacting or jumping to action is a good thing. Consequences over discipline here is ok too.Taking control of the situation is ok.

What hurt me as a groomed teenager was being blamed and punished. It was secrecy and shame and hiding from it. It was going to the police in such a way that I seemed to be labelled as complicit. It was scare tactics.
Your child needs love and care and gentleness. Communication and open chats. I think you are doing well op.

Given she's apparently rolled over and complied, I'd be seriously worried she has another phone.

Thank you, that's kind of you, and I'm really sorry you went through that.

I agree with this 100%.
Your child needs love and care and gentleness. Communication and open chats

I want to try to re-establish the trust in our relationship not push her further away or make her feel ashamed.

Agree.

Agree.

I think you need to involve the police.

Magical thinking, immaturity, and feeling you're special enough to avoid the bad actors and really do have something to offer to a troubled stranger online are a heady mix that can lead to horrible results.