12yo DD has been chatting older boys & adults online

[cwfen]

DD has a nice group.of friends she plays Minecraft with online. I know them all in real life.

However I've just discovered that in the last couple of months she's stopped playing with them and now has a group of online friends she doesn't know in real life, and which includes a 19 year old, 16 year olds and 15 year olds - all male. She has her own Minecraft server I think and it looks like that's where these people have come from.

She's been lying to me about their names, their age and where they live (pretending they're all one person she knows in real life who is 14),

Besides the 19 year old, I'm relieved to see most of the conversation is related to the game and general chit chat, nothing obviously dodgy. The conversation with the 19 year old is totally inappropriate, although I think it mostly went over her head.

Also, she's "acting up" trying to act older than her age to impress them, which is worrying.

My biggest issue is the lying, and that she plainly doesn't understand the risks.

I've taken her phone and laptop off her, and she's not getting them back for the foreseeable.

But what now? I don't want to just tell her off. This is too serious.

It's about her keeping safe, and she's obviously been stringing us along every bloody time we've had a conversation about this stuff and doesn't get it all.

I need her to really understand for herself why this isn't on. Is it realistic to think that might be possible? What now? WWYD?

It’s not a child’s responsibility to protect themselves from a predator. They don’t have the capacity to fully understand what they’re getting themselves into because they’re not an adult, which is why she’s not following any advice.

You could watch this with her.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m002520t/teen-predatoronline-killer

This man got 3500 girls, mostly 10-12, from all over the world, to send him naked photos. And most of them he only messaged with them once. On one day I mean.

Out of the 3500 girls, only four told an adult.

This would be a great documentary for you to see, but watch it yourself first before you let your daughter see it. I think it would be too disturbing for a 12-year-old.

100% with you here. Curious, not angry.

Making DD feel ashamed isn't going to help the situation at all. I want to try to regain our trust, not driven a wedge further between us.

Yes to more real life activities (but not structured clubs etc, she's already over timetabled for clubs).

But no, I'm not going to eliminate online gaming altogether. I'm going to try to find a way to monitor it - e.g. as I said above, perhaps we get a Minecraft server for her and then we can control who's on it.

Nor am I going to "come down on her like a ton of bricks". The end result I want is DD being happy, healthy and safe, and not lying to me. I don't think making her feel shame is the best way to achieve that. She knows it's serious as she's lost all her devices.

She's been online gaming with a lovely group of friends she knows in real life for 3 years now without incident until the last 2 months. She enjoys it and gets a lot out of it. I'm not going to take that away from her completely because of some prick has been messaging her. That would be a breach of her trust on my behalf.

Having said that, she's not getting access to it again until there have been significant changes, I can trust her and we both know where we are with it all.

Thanks, I'll have a look.

It's really interesting, I haven't had to tell DD to fill her time with other things. I thought she'd be constantly asking for her devices back, but yesterday she said she was bored about an hour before bed, I suggested she get into her bedclothes, not for go to bed but just to feel comfy, and go read her book. And she responded really enthusiastically and went off to do that. (It helps she's reading a really good book at the moment).

Usually the hour before bed is DP and I telling her she needs to get off the computer and her arguing and begging for more time.

And today, she brought one of her best friends home unannounced and asked if she could stay for dinner. Usually this doesn't happen - she comes home and goes straight on the computer, unless I intervene and insist she does something else like homework (also on the computer) or piano etc.

They're both really bright girls and it was lovely to hear them having a nice time playing board games together.

Another development - we have a lot on this weekend, and I need DD to have a phone so I can contact her e.g. to pick her up easily after an event she's performing in. So I've ordered a cheap non-smart phone for her.

It does calls, texts, FM radio (that'll be a new one for her!), stores MP3s but has no apps or internet.

I'm not sure if I'll let her take it on her journey to school - I need to establish if she has contact with these young men outside of Discord first. (The school doesn't allow phones to be used in school)

But one of the reasons she has a phone is for safety, so I'd like her to have one so she can contact me if needs be.

I’m going to ask this bluntly OP because it has baffled me throughout the thread and I’m not sure how else to ask.

Are you aware of parental controls? I know you weren’t using any, but do you know that they are built into your devices and are the option that most parents use?

If not, get on YouTube and start watching tutorials. Apple and Android both have parental controls and I’m sure there are lots of videos explaining how to best set them up. Lock her devices down so that she cannot download anything without your permission. It will pop up on your phone “Jane wants to download Discord” and Allow/Deny options.

Set screentime limits for specific apps that automatically kick her off when they’re up. Everything she wants to do can require permission if you want. She can request more time and it will pop up on your phone. One of my colleagues has it set so that her 12 year old has to request permission to access her photo album because she’s made dodgy decisions before. It’s a tool that every parent should be utilising and customising for their needs.

Just to add to @Shitmonger excellent advice, do not set them up with your DD anywhere near.

A lot of parents set up the controls together with their child, which is pointless when you think about it.

I read some/skimmed the posts so sorry if this has been suggested but I wonder if it would be wise to start a little scare campaign and start watching together tv shows and movies based on catfishing, and true crimes from online predators. There is a movie called ‘Trust’ where a young teenage girl meets an older man who posed as a teen initially, and he convinces her to have sex with him.

All the best 🤞

You seem to be in a bit of denial about your daughter being groomed.
Don't message the 19 year old, take it all to the police as soon as possible.

Yes I have parental controls and it's currently set so I have to give permission for any app she downloads.

Problem was, she started off using Discord to message with an established friend group, and I checked it regularly.

The last few months have been a busy time and so it's been a while since I checked. I also got complacent because she was using it responsibly before. Lesson learnt.

And yes, I am going to review the settings thoroughly before she goes back on her devices.

Eh? What do you think this whole thread and taking her devices off her is about?

I have read through the whole thread, the fact that 5 pages in you are talking about messaging your daughter's groomer and "threatening him with going to the police" suggests you don't quite understand.

It needs to be a police matter. Your daughter probably isn't the first victim.

Before you can explain the danger here to your daughter, you need to understand it.

No. Please reread the post.

That was in response to a poster saying I should message him, say I want to meet him and ask him where he lives.

I don't want to do that and I shared what I was thinking - BUT I also said in that very post that my response didn't mean I wasn't going to the police, because I knew I'd get jumped on by people who wanted to interpret it that way.

But you have decided to take it that way anyway.

I'm not going to the police before I've had a chance to look through DD's computer and phone, nor before I've had a chance to have a good chat with DD.

This is a busy time, we have a lot on (we have family visiting his weekend, DD is doing a performance she's been working towards for a long time, it's a big deal, and we have a significant family event to go to).

I don't want to rush my response to DD, and I like to think things over and gather information before acting, ESPECIALLY when it's an issue as serious as this. Don't mistake a considered, careful response for no action.

I am finding this thread useful to collect my thoughts, and I really appreciate those who are helping me do this.

But some posters - like you for example - seem determined to have a go - as is the way on Mumsnet, but it's really not helpful.

Of course I understand the situation, FFS. I wouldn't be taking such care to get it right if I didn't.

If the thread is boring you because I'm not rushing to take the most dramatic course of action immediately, sorry to disappoint but this is my actual life, not a drama.

Thanks, I'll have a look at it.

I’m really not sure that some of this is age appropriate. You don’t want to scare her so much that she’s petrified of the outside world. I’d find age appropriate resources and not frame it as a scare campaign!

It seems like you’re edging around the subject with your daughter. She’s old enough to understand. Spell it out for her, the internet is full of perverts who want sexual contact with kids and are willing to trick her. You do not want her to be part of any weirdos sexual fantasies or end up raped or murdered. If she’s going to be online she needs to understand exactly what kind of men are out there and what they want. She needs to know this anyway so she can wise up to male intentions in real life too.

The thread is not "boring me". You need to inform the police as a matter of urgency. At the very least an adult has sent inappropriate messages to your daughter.

Your daughter still has no idea what has happened is extremely inappropriate.

The scope of this is bigger than taking her tech away, it's an urgent matter. She is a victim.

I wonder if she feels relief in a way? It was probably a lot to deal with and perhaps she needed adults to take the reins and give her some boundaries and rules. I don’t say that to criticise at all, I have teens and one went a bit nuts at 13. I found after the initial fall out and such, he seemed almost grateful that we were taking control.

While you are thinking it over and trying to get it right the predator is reaching other children. He needs to be stopped. That is why I would, pretending to be your daughter, message him asking where he lives and talking of meeting up.

Threatening him with the police means nothing, the more information you can give the police the better. It also helps you to show your daughter that while she thought this person was innocent they are not.

Your daughter will continue to believe that she can actually tell the teenagers from the groomers. She cant. You cant. The police may be able to do so.

If she has lost access to something including her devices, you are punishing her for being groomed

Yes, very possibly.

Although she may have been keen to spend time chatting with this guy, it was pretty intense I wonder if she's getting any perspective on that now she's had space from it.

I'll probably have a proper chat with her about it on Monday I think. The house is full of family and lots of stuff going on, now's not the time.

Some of the things he spoke to her about were typical prick behaviour, like mentioning suicide and she obviously felt like she wanted to help him. I mean - grooming aside - that's typical abusive arsehole behaviour and I want to have a chat with her about that, as well as about grooming, so she can hopefully have a chance of recognising it in future and not wasting countless years with arseholes who exploit your good nature like I did (not DP, she's never witnessed it thankfully!)

Whatever happens next, this is a chance to recalibrate family life and how much time both DD - and myself tbh - have been spending online.

Seriously?

Lying to your mother for 2 months while engaging in seriously risky behaviour is not without consequences.

She's not being punished in that I haven't taken them away up teach her a lesson, or to make her feel bad in an effort to put her off doing it again.

But it's clear to me that

a. She needs a break from being online all the time as it was getting too much
b. I need to put a stop to her communications with adult men and older teenage boys immediately
c. I need to review how we approach safety
d. I need to put more effort into ensuring DD knows how to fill her downtime with activities that aren't screen based

None of this can happen easily without a break from the devices. It's not the end of the world to have a break from being online! And, she seems to be taking it in her stride. She's not sulking, angry or begging to be let back on, she's doing other stuff she enjoys instead, I'm delighted to see.

I am reassuring her that she's not in trouble, but it is serious and to do with keeping her safe.

I will let her back on when I feel we have a good understanding and decent safety measures have been put in place as opposed to when I feel she's been punished enough, do you see the difference? DD seems to anyway, and that's what matters.