Sigh. Pope Leo’s first sermon…

[CurlewKate]

“"A lack of faith is often tragically accompanied by the loss of meaning in life, the neglect of mercy, appalling violations of human dignity, the crisis of the family and so many other wounds that afflict our society,"

I don’t know why I expected anything different. Maybe because he likes Wordle?

There is a difference between a mannerless person on Mumsnet calling the Christian God a sky fairy and the leader of over a billion people worldwide saying that a lack of faith “often” leads people to commit “appalling violations of human dignity.”

I get your point it's like saying us atheists and agnostics have no moral compass, but I can't get wound up about it, he's the pope he's gonna say religious things! He's just not on my radar as I'm not a Christian so nothing he says has any effect on me. I know I have morals and that's all I need to know.
I have heard this argument trotted out in RL before though and totally disagree.

Fan of deep dish pizza, as you'd expect.

He has no immediate effect on me either. But he does have a significant effect on the world I live in. He is the leader of nearly 20% of the world’s population. That’s a LOT of people….

I am sure that if an leader who was an atheist and whose election had made news around the world and who had a massive audience said that in his first major speech that people who have faith often neglect mercy, commit appalling violations of human dignity and are linked to other wounds that afflict our society, then people of faith would feel the need to comment.

It's ok though because Jesus preached tolerance and people of faith have always been tolerant in the past to people who lacked faith and would never cause them harm because their religious leaders have told them that such people have caused harm in the world.

Leo is still the new pope.
It doesn’t make any matter to me.
Try not to take everything so seriously.
Peace.
Love - Goady. ❤️

@ButchyrestingfaceCoo-ee!! Still here!🤣

Jesus didn't really preach tolerance. There were plenty of things that Jesus had zero tolerance for.

It seems that one of the Atheists' prime movers has softened their stance somehow.
Apparently he prefers Christianity to Islam.

Interesting.

www.cato.org/commentary/richard-dawkins-takes-step-beyond-god-delusion#

Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Pretty certain loving thy neighbour was forgotten by leaders who claimed to be Christians in the past.

You mean he likes hymns and carols.

I like hymns and carols. I will watch the Christmas carols from Kings but that doesn't make me a Cultural Christian.

I agree.

Tories and Labour both to blame here. Especially Labour

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/commons-leader-blasted-over-grooming-gangs-blunder/

God doesn't exist, so if I want to call him a sky wizard, then that's just as valid as however you, or Christians, Muslims or any other religion wish to describe him.

That's what he is saying, as far as I can see. Because he's talking to the people who he is the leader of. Catholics. He's not concerned with atheists. A lack of faith can be a lack of faith in anything. He is a world leader, but if you're not practicing Catholic, then what he says has little to no effect. It's not the same as Donald Trump doing something, which will have repercussions around the world. I wonder how much moaning there will be about the Archbishop of Canterbury, the leader of the actual State religion in the UK? Catholics are a small minority in the UK, almost wholly made up of immigrant communities. Let them be.

@LaurelAvenueNot sure of the relevance of your post-but I suspect Dawkins won’t be troubled by the opinions of a right wing American think tank!

I don't know what mosques say about child sex abusers.

I do know some promote Radical Islam https://www.opindia.com/2021/06/author-reveals-how-mosques-in-uk-enforcing-radical-islam-among-muslims/

I also know that Iraq has lowered the age of consent to 9. No-one seems to be getting steamed up about that.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/aug/09/proposed-iraqi-law-change-would-legalise-child-say-activists

He's saying to his followers, look at those people who don't have faith, they are more likely to be responsible for a lot of the failings in the world with their lack of morals and other wounds that affect our society.

I would suggest he asks his followers to look at themselves and ask if their behaviours match to what is expected rather than worrying about people who don't have faith. We shouldn't even have been mentioned in that speech.

I didn't hear Pope Leo as saying that atheists are amoral people.
I heard him saying that having Faith leads to having a strong moral compass for many people. That without Faith, many people lack a moral compass. I would have thought that was blindingly obvious (sadly).

Whether that makes most people into Sheeple is another debate.

I didn't find Leo's comments offensive to me as a person indifferent to religiion.

Isn't he the self proclaimed leader of all Atheists?

Or have I got that wrong ?

Haven't there been loads of unmerciful, abhorrent violations and wounds inflicted in the name of, or under the umbrella of religion? Having 'faith' has nothing to do with how good and kind and moral you are.

It's just not true and it's insulting to anybody who doesn't have 'faith'.

Ok, but presumably you also don't agree that a lack of faith leads to being deprived of the afterlife with Christ that Christians will enjoy?

The pope is talking to catholics about keeping their faith and reminding them of some of the dangers of losing it, according to their religion. Not a shock.

Atheism is an absence of belief.
It doesn't need a leader.

I don't believe in fairies. But there is no leader of people who don't believe in fairies.