So how do I live in the female gender?

[Definitelynamechanged123]

There are 8834 people in the UK who have a Gender Recognition Certificate.
I am one of them.

To get it, I had to show evidence of transition, surgery etc. Lots of hoops

I also had to swear a Statutory Declaration. I had to go to a Magistrates Court and swear a legal declaration in front of a magistrate. It was all very formal.

I had to swear this:

" have lived as a (insert ‘male’ or ‘female’ as appropriate)
throughout the period of years before the date of this statutory
declaration and I intend to live in that gender until death."

This declaration is legally binding. Apparently if I don't follow this, I can be done for perjury.

So...how do I live as a female and live in that gender until death - I have sworn to do this in front of a magistrate.

I was very surprised that so few trans people have Gender Recognition Certificates.

OP, I presume that you don't believe this is an issue for women to fix, but for society to fix.

In which case, I assume you have also posted on a mainly male forum.

How did that go? Were they helpful?

This is disingenious. Some trans-masculine people pass for men, with full beards, deeper voices and muscular physiques. I know one or two people who fit this description and realistically they would look extremely out of place in a communal women's changing room, and they'd feel awful for making women uncomfortable because as biological women they get it.

I think in reality trans men will find a loo to discretely change in. Because that's what most women usually do, we shrink ourselves to not make others uncomfortable, and to try to find a sense of safety. That's also why the nefarious, autogynephilic transwomen stand out like a sore thumb.

I don't relish having to distinguish between a transitioned-woman who passes as a man, and a man.

As has been pointed out, nobody is going to police loos - but if a trans woman starts waving a penis around in a female changing room it will now be clear they can be removed (being cagey about pronouns deliberately).

I think, sadly for you and others like you, you are about to discover that you have been sorely let down - by family, psychologists, clinicians and the legal system that allowed you to believe that there is such a thing as ‘living as a different gender’ to that predicated by your biological sex. It is the reason I believe that the GRA will now have to be repealed and GRCs will become void, I am afraid.

I hope though, that as this happens, there will be access to safe third spaces for gender dysphoric individuals and continued protection of their rights against discrimination (ie they can expect to be protected at work, to have the same accesses and rights before the courts, in loan/mortgage eligibility, etc just as men have always had and women have only had - in law - since the seventies when they were finally permitted to open a bank account in their own right).

I hope that the decades of largely empathetic tolerance and acceptance that existed until recently will re-emerge so that you and others with GRCs can return to simply ‘living your lives’ quietly and largely unharassed by others because Stonewall et al are no longer lobbying for the erosion of rights, safety and dignity of vulnerable women.

Re the day to day living - well, I guess you will have to muddle through, however you wish to present. Just as everyone else does. Life is pretty tough for everybody, really, but most of us have not been seduced by the lie that surgery or lifelong medicalisation will fix it.

“In” is such a weird preposition in this context. It makes it sound like gender is a hollow shell you can step into.

Which makes the process to get the GRC completely illogical. How can they make someone swear to something that they can’t define? Why bother making them swear it? Why is that part of the process?

I'm pleased you've found peace and comfort in how you outwardly portray yourself. For many of us women, we don't mind this at all. Dress however you like (within reason/legalities).

However, those with GRCs need to petition the government for clarity. If using the male toilets feels like it's contravening your GRC then you will need to look to alternatives (like a third space). With women being told to budge up and shut up, we must be mindful that those with disabilities aren't now being told to do the same (a third space must not take from disabled single use facilities either).

You remain biologically a man and I'm sorry if you feel you were lead to thinking you could become a woman. Because of this you cannot fully experience life as a woman, you can only experience some parts of it and only as a biological man who outwardly portrays as a woman. It will never be the same.

Edited for typo

I think you're being a little disingenous with your last sentence...I get that you don't want to be stereotyped, but women do have commonalities with each other. (I'm a woman.) Yes, there certainly are many women who eschew anything stereotypically feminine, but meanwhile back in the real world, most do not. It's not hard to understand what it means to live as a woman. For most people, it means wearing clothes that are somewhat feminine - doesn't have to be dresses and heels - and using makeup, jewellery, accessories etc as you wish, and probably having longer hair than a short back and sides. And women are more likely to enjoy things like dance and baking than men are. Just because you don't like anything stereotypically feminine, doesn't mean that the majority of women don't.

I'm a stereotypically feminine woman, and I don't feel that women who reject all things feminine are somehow better than me, even though the world seems to hate all things feminine.

OP, to live as a woman, you'll likely wear dresses, skirts, and/or heels at least sometimes. You can have fun with makeup, accessories, perfumes, spa days, and hair. And you can indulge any feminine interests you might have without being teased by guy friends. You can have a lot of fun with some insanely pretty clothes and accessories. You can use makeup to enhance your best features and cover up anything you perceive as a flaw (I have panda eyes). All this is if you want to, of course. Ignore the replies which pretend not to understand your question.

You're living in a world of make believe.

Women can spot biological women even if they have a hairy upper lip and wear men's clothes or have men's hairstyles.

Likewise, we can spot a man who's dressing as a woman.

If in maybe 1% of cases , a woman makes a mistake and calls out a woman for being a man and in women's safe spaces, it's not the end of the world.

@Catisgluedtome

You’re wading into an argument with your opinion when you don’t even understand what one side is saying? Interesting decision. I wonder whether you’re one of those people who decided that they hated JK Rowling without even knowing what she said?

The furore around trans women using women’s toilets and changing rooms is not that we think we’ll be attacked or ‘perved on’ (nice bit of minimising there). We fully understand that 99% of trans women just want to use the facilities and then move on. But there are a subset of trans women, as there are a subset of men, who are predators. The available stats confirm that trans women offend at the same rate as men. And if we open up the door and welcome in the absolutely lovely trans women who wouldn’t hurt a fly, then it makes it impossible to then gatekeep our facilities from the men who are predators. Like Karen White, Isla Bryson, Katie Dowlatowski and co. And I’m not suggesting that a man would go to the trouble of transitioning (or in the case of Isla Bryson, just putting on a cheap wig and a pair of leggings) simply to attack a woman. Danielle Muscato, for instance, demonstrates that a man doesn’t need to change any aspect of their appearance to be a trans woman (I am in no way suggesting that Danielle Muscato is predatory in any way, shape or form whatsoever, just to be very clear). But sadly, predators don’t wear labels so, as I said on another thread, we don’t know who to scream and shout at and tell to fuck off, and who to shut up and budge over for. Are you with me so far? And if that’s not enough for you, we have women whose religions mean that they then couldn’t use those facilities (which is a bit of a bloody cheek seeing as they’re meant for women). We have the women whose trauma means they fear being alone with a man in a confined space. We have the women who want privacy and don’t want to be naked or half dressed in front of a man, whether he’s looking at them or not, and who don’t want a man to be naked or half dressed in front of them, and we have women who feel very strongly that men should not be in single sex spaces. Is any part of that resonating with you?

I had a trans lady cut my hair recently. I could tell she had been born male because of her hands and voice. I didn't run out screaming, nobody died. Err, why would you run out screaming? Are you under the impression that Gender Critical women think that trans women are like big spiders and we’re all scared of them?

Track your monthly cycle.

Oh, wait...

I'm glad you've found peace, OP.

As for living as woman... Anything a woman does is by definition living as a woman. Anything a man does is by definition living as a man. Any other view is repressive and limiting in my opinion.

So you having surgery, presenting as more feminine, changing your name to Jane etc is still living as a man. An unusual man, and one that faces more discrimination from society than most, but still a man.

Re your grc, I think you should behave however you want to behave (while respecting women's spaces and safety) and if you're sanctioned for breaking your commitment to living as a woman... Well, I'd be very interested in that court case and would support you 100%. The law is incredibly badly worded.

Surely you realised when you were saying it that there's no such thing as "living as a female" theres only either being male or female. Other than that you can live life how you want within the usual boundaries (eg a male cant go in female changing rooms, an adult cant sign up for attending a childs activity class, an under 60 year old cant live in 60+ retirement peoperties, a child cant get a driving license etc)
I'm sorry that you were made to think otherwise by incorrect policies.

You carry on wearing what you want, but biology is what makes someone male or female or their age and those things cant be identified as. It doesn't dictate anything else. Stereotypes are a load of rubbish and not liking the ones associated with your biology doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you.

No good if he's over 50 and post menopause though.

I’m afraid there’s only one way of living “as a woman” and that’s to have primary and secondary female reproductive characteristics. No piece of paper can make you female.

Think it through in your head, because you clearly haven't tried thinking.

Imagine in your local female-only changing room someone walks in who looks like a bit of a man, what we call traditional male features. They're a transgender woman? Maybe, they could be. But what if they're just a hairy woman having a bad day and haven't had their armpits done for a while, have a bit of a moustache? How do you plan to confirm this?

Are you going to call the police every time such an incident occurs?

Or do you not care? Me, I don't care. That person doesn't represent a threat to me. What I find incredible is that people have not through the complexities of this matter and are instead posting fantasies without considering that the enforcement of ensuring only females are in female changing rooms and female safe spaces is as good as impossible.

If someone is transgender and has had a pen1s grafted on, to me they are clearly serious about it and are a transgender man, and vice versa the same if they've had a pen1s removed and a vag1na grafted on. You don't do that unless you are serious about transitioning.

The complexity of this is shown in the mumsnet threads because people appear to be thinking they can judge someone by how they look and somehow ban all people who don't like like traditional looking women from changing room and safe spaces, but the same people haven't explained how they're going to enforce it.

It isn't enforceable without people behaving like police and checking for certain genitals or calling the police all the time. I don't understand the practicalities of how this enforcement of gender segregation will work and, in truth, neither do you or anybody here.

You knew what I meant. Ok I could have said ‘those dangling things between their legs that they make hard with a pump under their skin’. My question is still the same.

I’ve seen an awful lot of transmen- I can’t say that none pass as I wouldn’t know- but a hell of a lot don’t. Sadly for them. Turns out girls make very bad men.

Transwomen- well I’ve seen a lot of them, too. They make crap women.

Once more for those at the back:

Gender Critical women don't hate trans women. I know some of you think we do but we don't.

We are allowed to have boundaries around women-only spaces, and still get along just fine with transwomen in spaces where there's no conflict. Like in a hairdressing salon.

Why did you swear to do something if you don’t know what that something is?

Sounds like your oath was never meaningful to start with.

They have a pump under their skin that they pump it up with, to enable them to have penetrative sex

@zackmills I have to assume you’re male, if you genuinely can’t tell.

I can’t swear I’d get every photo correct, but once someone moves or speaks, it’s really very evident.

OP can I ask you a question?

Can I get you to tell me how I, as a cis/biological woman can live my life as a transwoman?

I’ve tried to answer your question in my head and the truth is, if my daughter asked me how do I live my life as a woman, I would tell her to be herself. I don’t live my life as a woman, I live my life as me - and everything else like my rave, gender and age are just part of my making - they may influence my trajectory but they are not me,

m I’m in my 30s. When I was a teen my best friend was a transwoman - we didn’t have any of the terminology or the movement we do now. This friend of mine became trans because they weren’t developing correctly during puberty so it was the strangest time for her, but honestly we were both exploring what it was to be a woman together - and I believe the lack of labels made that experience liberating for her - although it was so hard for her family - but she looked like a woman, but living as a woman was actually about her being herself and fulfilling her dreams.

I go back to my question. How can I as a ciswoman live as a transwoman?

I can’t - well I can if I was born a boy then transitioned. Already - that’s already shown me that I cannot be you.

If I want to be stereotypical should I contour my face? Pick up drag as a hobby?

No! That would be stereotyping.

OP you are a transwoman. Us biological woman are fighting the fight to be ourselves in a world that will and does give men the upper hand.

My only advice to you is to live your life. Whatever that looks like. But nobody can teach anyone how to be a gender.

We do. We menstruate, ovulate, go through menopause, have hormone surges that send us a little crazy. All the commonalities across all women are biological.

Everything else varies from person to person.

Dictionary definition of 'live' = can refer to the state of being alive, residing in a place, or to the way one conducts their life.

So, if we take the only plausible definition "the way one conducts their life"

To define this conducting their life in the 'woman way' we would need to list the ways in which women (generally) conduct their lives and make sure that everything on the list relates to how women live their lives as a class..

Make up wearing, no, many women don't
Wearing heels, no, many women don't
Giggling coyly, no, most women don't
Sharing sanitary products in public loos, no women don't
Having pillow fights in skimpy PJ's, nope definitely not
Having genital surgery, not really

Struggling here......