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Has the US crossed the Rubicon? - Trump thread #142

1000 replies

Spandauer · 15/04/2025 18:42

Here be dragons.

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5307874-are-we-feeling-liberated-yet-trump-thread-141

Has the US crossed the Rubicon? - Trump thread #142
OP posts:
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133
Wallaw · 20/04/2025 10:50

Talkinpeace · 20/04/2025 10:45

US factories are not geared up to producing right hand drive cars.

Japanese lowering regs will not make people want to buy them.

I'm not caught up on this particular aspect of the tariff madness, but my guess would be that this is over the cars manufactured in Japan for the US market? Or is it broader than that?

SerendipityJane · 20/04/2025 11:50

Talkinpeace · 20/04/2025 10:45

US factories are not geared up to producing right hand drive cars.

Japanese lowering regs will not make people want to buy them.

Anyone who has to engage with date formats in computing has known for decades that the US will happily run up the down escalator of international consensus. Something which proves their line of descent from the British, really.

logicisall · 20/04/2025 12:00

Talkinpeace · 20/04/2025 10:45

US factories are not geared up to producing right hand drive cars.

Japanese lowering regs will not make people want to buy them.

Oh you sweet summer child!

A manufacturer makes a product to suit its market, hence why Japanese car manufacturers make RH drive cars for countries that drive on the RH side and vice versa for US car makers.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Talkinpeace · 20/04/2025 12:10

But this is about the rights of American manufacturers to sell to Japan.
Japan only enforces its own safety standard in Japan.

Same as Fords sold in the US are very different from Fords sold in the EU.

Only those who have driven an American made hire car (SUV with 3 speed auto anybody) know how rubbish American designs are
compared with the wonderful Japanese vans that live their second lives in Sri Lanka and other RHD countries.

logicisall · 20/04/2025 12:10

Wallaw · 20/04/2025 10:50

I'm not caught up on this particular aspect of the tariff madness, but my guess would be that this is over the cars manufactured in Japan for the US market? Or is it broader than that?

Correct. Reported on Bloomberg News last night.

Looking at what companies are doing/thinking re tariffs is a good way of following current economic (too niche?) thinking that's not being reported elsewhere.

logicisall · 20/04/2025 12:12

It's similar to the US complaint that EU/UK food standards are too high, therefore they are a barrier to trade.

BigDecisionWorthIt · 20/04/2025 12:20

Igotjelly · 19/04/2025 21:42

More lies from the Dictator in Chief https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-kilmar-abrego-garcia-hand-b2735920.html this time using doctored images as ‘evidence’ that Garcia is a gang member.

As much as they are trying to stick to the "gang" related circumstantial evidence with not really any strong basis and ridiculousness like this; Garcia's past is what will most likely eventually decide his outcome.

Whether he gets due process and returns to the US to fight his case in court, which he should, (which is now going to need a miracle); or doesn't get due process, he won't have a future in the US.

He has history of domestic abuse with a restraining order from wife being filed a few years ago. Exerts of the report released to the public details the abuse she suffered at his hands and confirms that are photo/video evidence of how he acted.

Under Section 8 of the INA (a section last updated in 2008 and left the same by 3 democratic administrations) domestic abuse (regardless of conviction or not) makes any LPR or intending LPR inadmissible and deportable.

pointythings · 20/04/2025 12:21

logicisall · 20/04/2025 12:12

It's similar to the US complaint that EU/UK food standards are too high, therefore they are a barrier to trade.

The US literally wants us to eat shit and die.

JoshLymanSwagger · 20/04/2025 12:42

logicisall · 20/04/2025 07:49

Japan joins the Trump world by looking at lowering their car safety standards in order to strike a trade deal. US carmakers have long complained that Japanese safety standards (around crash protection) are a trade barrier. What a sh*t show.

I won't be buying a Japanese car then...

JoshLymanSwagger · 20/04/2025 12:51

JoshLymanSwagger · 20/04/2025 12:42

I won't be buying a Japanese car then...

Said DH.

Yes, I know. 🙄

We've always stuck with small VW or Ford cars, and since Ford have stopped making the Fiesta the bastards it looks like we're only buying VW now.

And I know that VW own Audi, Skoda, Seat, Bentley etc, so it'll be one of those "sub" brands - although not a Bentley, I do have some taste.

logicisall · 20/04/2025 12:59

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

logicisall · 20/04/2025 13:07

Ignore previous post @JoshLymanSwagger , I've just seen your explanation! I'll ask to remove mine.

ohdrearydrearyme · 20/04/2025 13:42

Delurking to say that I used to live in Japan. Way back, when Bush senior was also trying to push the Japanese to buy more American cars. This was talked about in the Japanese press back then.
The Americans didn't understand then, and still don't understand, the factors stopping people from buying them:

Size:

  • Japanese suburban roads are very narrow. Additionally, to cope with seasonal rainfall, the roads have gutters on both sides that usually take the form of ditches around a foot deep. Manoeuver your car wrong and you'll end up in a ditch and probably with a broken axle. Obviously, smaller and shorter cars are more desirable.
  • Everything car-related is set up, unsurprisingly, to work with Japanese size cars.
If you are rich enough to have land to park a car on, gate width, size of garage roof (usually just a plastic roof to cover the top of the car) etc. all come in a set size. Same goes for parking garages, etc. Maybe American cars would actually fit, but would-be buyers would probably have doubts.

Spare parts and maintenance:
-The market is set up such that these cater for Japanese cars. Repair work and spare parts for American cars need specialised garages, and entail higher costs and probably longer waiting times as parts need to be ordered in. The whole tariff craziness/trade wilfullness right now probably makes this seem even more of an issue right now.

Image:
-The belief that quality and fuel consumption of American cars is far inferior.

  • The current niche status of American car owners in Japan. Basically, there are two groups: enthusiasts, and the Yakuza (i.e. organised crime).
So enthusiasts have a similar status to something as obscure as train-spotters (though no shade on them). You can't just tell the general population to go out and start train-spotting. They'll understandably refuse. Same with buying an American car.
  • The Yakuza - and there are truly quite a lot of them at least in certain cities - tend to flaunt their status: different hair styles, different clothing and shoe styles, and ...drive around in an American car. So definitely not the image that your average citizen is going for.

Finally, public transportation and the demand for cars in general:

  • Sure, there are plenty of rural areas where people want or need to have a car, but a vast number of people live in urban areas where having a car is more of a burden than a benefit.
Roads are narrow, and parking spaces are such an issue that you are not allowed to buy a car unless you can show you have somewhere to park it. (There are more issues, but this post is getting too long).
  • Importantly, it is often MUCH faster and easier to use public transport in a city than to drive. Long story short: Japanese rail lines often bought and built rail lines along the most direct routes between places long before car owning was a thing. You can travel from the centre of Osaka to the centre of Kobe in about a third of the time it would take by car, and the trains leave every few minutes. Trains are affordable, reliable and amazingly frequent. Bus travel is not quite as good, but still not too bad.
So, simply, the demand is not there.
Talkinpeace · 20/04/2025 14:02

@ohdrearydrearyme
Brilliant post.

People I follow who want to make UK cities prettier regularly comment on the fact that on street parking hardly exists in Japan.

Cars have to fit the needs of buyers and the spaces to store them.

Mrsbloggz · 20/04/2025 14:52

The fact that Americans tend to be large and spherical whereas Japanese people tend to be rather the opposite is probably also a factor here?

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/04/2025 16:14

BigDecisionWorthIt · 20/04/2025 12:20

As much as they are trying to stick to the "gang" related circumstantial evidence with not really any strong basis and ridiculousness like this; Garcia's past is what will most likely eventually decide his outcome.

Whether he gets due process and returns to the US to fight his case in court, which he should, (which is now going to need a miracle); or doesn't get due process, he won't have a future in the US.

He has history of domestic abuse with a restraining order from wife being filed a few years ago. Exerts of the report released to the public details the abuse she suffered at his hands and confirms that are photo/video evidence of how he acted.

Under Section 8 of the INA (a section last updated in 2008 and left the same by 3 democratic administrations) domestic abuse (regardless of conviction or not) makes any LPR or intending LPR inadmissible and deportable.

It is VERY telling that the Trump administration is focused on his ‘terrorist’ ‘gang affiliation’ rather than his domestic violence. Even if they could score many more points repeatedly arguing that he’s a violent DV criminal, dangerous to women, they focus on something else. Partly because they are tagging everything foreign and undesirable as ‘terrorist’ which suits the American script. And partially because they simply don’t give a shit about violence towards women; actively support and commit it in some cases.

It’s a short walk to thinking that they will follow the Russian direction of criminalising dissent and legalising violence against women.

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 20/04/2025 18:28

Bit of a larf?

Has the US crossed the Rubicon? - Trump thread #142
logicisall · 20/04/2025 19:49

It is VERY telling that the Trump administration is focused on his ‘terrorist’ ‘gang affiliation’ rather than his domestic violence.

Garcia's wife has explained the short term restraining order so Trump's Administration have no choice but to double down on the terrorist gang affiliation if they don't want to admit it was wrong. Sadly, I think that he will never be returned to the US alive.

"After surviving domestic violence in a previous relationship, I acted out of caution after a disagreement with Kilmar by seeking a civil protective order in case things escalated," she said. "Things did not escalate, and I decided not to follow through with the civil court process. We were able to work through this situation privately as a family, including by going to counseling".

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/why-kilmar-garcias-wife-says-she-was-afraid-of-him-feared-for-her-child/ar-AA1D4hdF

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/why-kilmar-garcias-wife-says-she-was-afraid-of-him-feared-for-her-child/ar-AA1D4hdF

JoshLymanSwagger · 20/04/2025 19:57

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 20/04/2025 18:28

Bit of a larf?

"Out-cunted himself" is my new favourite way of describing what 🍊⛳ does.
😁

TomPinch · 20/04/2025 21:06

One shouldn't judge the US car industry using the stereotype of a massive gas guzzler. US car manufacturers could supply the Japanese market with suitable cars. I expect Ford have got a few smaller RHD car designs knocking around!

Also I'm no expert but I believe American cars aren't as uniformly big as they used to be. Also a friend of mine drives a RHD Dodge and it's the same size as an ordinary estate car. Clearly even a brand like Dodge already considers it worthwhile to build such a thing.

The more important issue is that I can't imagine American car plants outcompeting Japanese plants for efficiency or build quality though the fact that US car imports to where I live (NZ) have increased does make me wonder whether their reputation is improving.

TomPinch · 20/04/2025 21:13

A more general point: Trump wants to bring manufacturing back to the US, reversing what's happened since the 1980s. That much is clear.

Did anyone see the Netflix programme American Factory where a Chinese business took over a glass manufacturing plant in the US? The business also had a Chinese plant: the workers were younger, fitter and so they worked harder. And that's leaving aside the lack of people with know-how in making stuff.

TulipTiptoer · 20/04/2025 22:02

That is just so awful, and depressing. And as you say, it is just heartbreaking. Save the Children doing the best they can but US Aid cuts mean cuts for them.

Serpentstooth · 20/04/2025 22:53

Isn't Musk's 'legion' a reference to the biblical legions rather than the Romans? End times folks, fall on your knees. I have a suspicion that even being 'saved, hallelujah' won't be sufficient to turn back the four horsemen. Hands together, eyes closed . . .

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