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Labour isn't working Thread 2

990 replies

TheNuthatch · 05/04/2025 22:18

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
47
TheNuthatch · 04/05/2025 17:51

Boomers are responsible for the country's ills are they?

I'll add that to the pile of horse shit I've heard spewed from the left today 👍

OP posts:
MyNameIsX · 04/05/2025 17:55

Sir Keir Starmer’s “hyper-liberal” Labour Party is ignoring working-class concerns about immigration, one of its leading Red Wall MPs has said.

Jonathan Hinder said the issue was an “existential threat” for the Labour Party after Reform UK’s historic triumph at last week’s local elections.

The MP for Pendle and Clitheroe suggested Sir Keir should commit to effectively freezing migration by the end of the parliament through a “one in, one out” system.

@ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter
Presumably, Hinder is an insufferable racist too, correct?

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:03

MyNameIsX · 04/05/2025 17:55

Sir Keir Starmer’s “hyper-liberal” Labour Party is ignoring working-class concerns about immigration, one of its leading Red Wall MPs has said.

Jonathan Hinder said the issue was an “existential threat” for the Labour Party after Reform UK’s historic triumph at last week’s local elections.

The MP for Pendle and Clitheroe suggested Sir Keir should commit to effectively freezing migration by the end of the parliament through a “one in, one out” system.

@ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter
Presumably, Hinder is an insufferable racist too, correct?

I was actually discussing Reform, not Labour. I don't see anything racist about Starmer to date. If you're voting based on Racism alone, than clearly Farage and Reform would win that trophy.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:06

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 04/05/2025 17:50

What tax avoidance?

Sunak's wife?? Come on. They're all crooked.

MyNameIsX · 04/05/2025 18:08

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:06

Sunak's wife?? Come on. They're all crooked.

Does your ‘crooked’ threshold extend to the freebies that Reeves and Rayner have received (that we are aware of, at least)?

We also await your ‘Truss crashed the markets’ reply, please.

EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 18:09

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:06

Sunak's wife?? Come on. They're all crooked.

This is a time warp to 2024

Labour are in power now. And if they’re your party you are a dwindling supporter.

TheNuthatch · 04/05/2025 18:10

IIRC, Hinder is 'blue labour'? Aka the worst of the worst according to liberal elites.

I cant open the links. This may upset the lurkers, but I don't read or subscribe to the telegraph.

OP posts:
ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:11

MyNameIsX · 04/05/2025 17:50

’Truss crashed the markets’ - please explain, or again, are you simply regurgitating what you have read.

Do you have any meaningful understanding of financial markets?

Here you go:

The Liz Truss mini-budget, released in September 2022, caused significant instability in the UK financial markets. The government's plan to cut taxes and increase borrowing led to a surge in government borrowing costs and ultimately prompted a retreat from the original plans. The Resolution Foundation estimated that the mini-budget cost the UK Treasury around £30 billion, with £20 billion attributed to unfunded tax cuts and £10 billion to increased borrowing costs.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Unfunded Tax Cuts:
The mini-budget included large-scale tax cuts, particularly to National Insurance contributions and Stamp Duty, without providing offsetting revenue streams.

Increased Borrowing Costs:
The market reacted negatively to the budget's plans, leading to a sharp increase in government borrowing costs, including a spike in the value of the pound.

Policy U-Turns:
Due to the market reaction, the government largely reversed the tax cuts and other measures announced in the mini-budget.

Energy Price Guarantee:
In response to rising energy costs, the government also introduced an Energy Price Guarantee to support households and businesses.

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:12

EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 18:09

This is a time warp to 2024

Labour are in power now. And if they’re your party you are a dwindling supporter.

I was asked what tax was avoided during that period , ffs

MyNameIsX · 04/05/2025 18:13

TheNuthatch · 04/05/2025 18:10

IIRC, Hinder is 'blue labour'? Aka the worst of the worst according to liberal elites.

I cant open the links. This may upset the lurkers, but I don't read or subscribe to the telegraph.

No trouble, Nuthatch, he we are -

It is now or never for Labour and the working class
by Jonathan Hinder

Can you hear that familiar sound? The engines of the liberal establishment are revving up to explain why Reform’s success is definitely not down to the one thing we know it definitely is: immigration.

More in Common, a polling company, recently asked Reform UK voters why they would vote for them, and 81 per cent said immigration, with the next most popular reason being “I like their leader”, down at 31 per cent.

The primary reason for Reform’s rise is staring us all in the face, but from the moment the declaration was made at Runcorn, one of Labour’s safest seats just ten months ago, the cognitive gymnastics began to explain why this was down to anything but politicians’ unwillingness to listen to voters on immigration.

Of course, it is clear that our economy is not working as it should for ordinary people in the small towns like those I represent in Pendle & Clitheroe.

I want profiteering multi-nationals to pay their fair share of tax, public services run for the common good, not for private profit, and much greater investment in our crumbling infrastructure. On this, I find agreement with those who refuse to acknowledge the immigration issue.

But the voters know instinctively what the Left often refuses to acknowledge – immigration is fundamentally an economic issue as much as it is anything else, and working-class people are generally the losers.

Imagine for a moment, hard as it may be, that Labour pivoted sharply on immigration. A goal of roughly balanced migration – equal numbers emigrating as immigrating – was communicated and steadily delivered by the end of this Parliament. This would return us to the more or less balanced net migration levels we had for decades until the mid-1990s.

Imagine too that every legal obstacle to tackling the small boats crisis was systematically removed, so that there was no incentive for migrants to make the dangerous channel crossing in the first place, all asylum hotels could be shut, and instead a set number of refugees could be accepted from abroad in a controlled manner each year.

What would Reform have left if the immigration issue were resolved in this way? Their domestic policy programme is utterly incoherent, not that it matters because few voters know or care what it is. They would have nothing left to say if one of the two main parties finally listened to what the voters have been telling them at every opportunity for the last twenty years.

Dame Andrea Jenkyns recently called for migrants to be put in tents instead of hotels in her Lincolnshire victory speech
Meanwhile, what could the Conservatives do in response but hang their heads in shame?
With freedom of movement gone, they had the opportunity to deliver the low levels of immigration sought by the vast majority of the electorate. Instead, they stuck two fingers up at their new voter coalition in the most spectacular way, unleashing the “Boriswave” of non-European migration, with net migration peaking at nearly one million in a single year.

In 2019, it looked like Labour as a party of the working class may be gone forever, but the Conservatives’ implosion under Boris Johnson and then Liz Truss gave us one last chance.

Many voters were so keen to rid the country of the chaotic Conservatives that we squeaked home in hundreds of constituencies across the country, with a very efficiently spread vote share of 33.7 per cent, just a smidge higher than we had scored in the drubbing of 2019 (32.1 per cent).

So, this week’s results should be the wake-up call we need. But Labour has morphed into a hyper-liberal party more than a socialist party, such that secure borders and low immigration are seen as “Right-wing” within its ecosystem of city-based activists, think tanks and associated organisations. No matter that high immigration is, of course, the capitalist’s dream.

This is existential for the Labour Party now. Our drift away from our working-class base has been decades in the making, and goes far deeper than the tenure of any one leader.

Platitudes about “listening” and “learning” will not do. It is now or never for Labour and the working class.

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:14

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:12

I was asked what tax was avoided during that period , ffs

Oh, and I haven't said who "my" party is. I have said I don't like Reform, and didn't like how the Tories performed. Why? Is Reform "your party?"

MyNameIsX · 04/05/2025 18:15

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:11

Here you go:

The Liz Truss mini-budget, released in September 2022, caused significant instability in the UK financial markets. The government's plan to cut taxes and increase borrowing led to a surge in government borrowing costs and ultimately prompted a retreat from the original plans. The Resolution Foundation estimated that the mini-budget cost the UK Treasury around £30 billion, with £20 billion attributed to unfunded tax cuts and £10 billion to increased borrowing costs.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Unfunded Tax Cuts:
The mini-budget included large-scale tax cuts, particularly to National Insurance contributions and Stamp Duty, without providing offsetting revenue streams.

Increased Borrowing Costs:
The market reacted negatively to the budget's plans, leading to a sharp increase in government borrowing costs, including a spike in the value of the pound.

Policy U-Turns:
Due to the market reaction, the government largely reversed the tax cuts and other measures announced in the mini-budget.

Energy Price Guarantee:
In response to rising energy costs, the government also introduced an Energy Price Guarantee to support households and businesses.

Ok, so you know how to cut and paste.

Now, add some context please, including supporting your previous comment ‘we are still paying for it’ (the Truss mini-budget).

EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 18:18

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:12

I was asked what tax was avoided during that period , ffs

Your posts generally, it’s like pre GE when people thought Labour would be good. And the site was pretty much Labour only.

Things have moved on. Their popularity has tanked, they’re proving their policies aren’t great.

MyNameIsX · 04/05/2025 18:20

EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 18:18

Your posts generally, it’s like pre GE when people thought Labour would be good. And the site was pretty much Labour only.

Things have moved on. Their popularity has tanked, they’re proving their policies aren’t great.

I think this is Kubler-Ross, Eastern.

Labour voters are currently in denial.

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:21

@MyNameIsX

I cut and paste for your benefit, seeing as how you were delusional in thinking her failings were fiction/regurgitation. Quite honestly I cannot be bothered with this Reform cult-like thread anymore.

Answer to your question regarding "context." The market hasn't gone back to normal since Truss. The UK has regained some investors' confidence, but that actually is more down to Rachel Reeves' progrowth agenda. The bank of England is only just starting to reduce interest rates again, after significantly hiking them after Liz Truss's budget, that put up the cost of borrowing for everyone, including the government. This ultimately increased prices everywhere.

EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 18:24

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:21

@MyNameIsX

I cut and paste for your benefit, seeing as how you were delusional in thinking her failings were fiction/regurgitation. Quite honestly I cannot be bothered with this Reform cult-like thread anymore.

Answer to your question regarding "context." The market hasn't gone back to normal since Truss. The UK has regained some investors' confidence, but that actually is more down to Rachel Reeves' progrowth agenda. The bank of England is only just starting to reduce interest rates again, after significantly hiking them after Liz Truss's budget, that put up the cost of borrowing for everyone, including the government. This ultimately increased prices everywhere.

Edited

I think ‘pro growth agenda’ isn’t really doing it, for anyone atm

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:27

EasternStandard · 04/05/2025 18:24

I think ‘pro growth agenda’ isn’t really doing it, for anyone atm

No, it isn't I agree. We aren't seeing any benefits yet.

MyNameIsX · 04/05/2025 18:28

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:21

@MyNameIsX

I cut and paste for your benefit, seeing as how you were delusional in thinking her failings were fiction/regurgitation. Quite honestly I cannot be bothered with this Reform cult-like thread anymore.

Answer to your question regarding "context." The market hasn't gone back to normal since Truss. The UK has regained some investors' confidence, but that actually is more down to Rachel Reeves' progrowth agenda. The bank of England is only just starting to reduce interest rates again, after significantly hiking them after Liz Truss's budget, that put up the cost of borrowing for everyone, including the government. This ultimately increased prices everywhere.

Edited

My word, this is GCSE Economics.

With respect, you really have no clue, about bond markets, about monetary policy, about geopolitical context.

You simply attempt to dilute the subject into domestic politics.

Staggering naïveté.

Bluebellwood129 · 04/05/2025 18:29

The UK has regained some investors' confidence, but that actually is more down to Rachel Reeves' progrowth agenda.

Rachel Reeves has no progrowth agenda. The UK is dying a slow and painful death at the hands of an incompetent idiot who's too stubborn to admit she's wrong.

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:30

MyNameIsX · 04/05/2025 18:28

My word, this is GCSE Economics.

With respect, you really have no clue, about bond markets, about monetary policy, about geopolitical context.

You simply attempt to dilute the subject into domestic politics.

Staggering naïveté.

Oh really? You've just thrown out a load of fancy titles there. Now provide substance. I'm interested to hear.

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:31

Bluebellwood129 · 04/05/2025 18:29

The UK has regained some investors' confidence, but that actually is more down to Rachel Reeves' progrowth agenda.

Rachel Reeves has no progrowth agenda. The UK is dying a slow and painful death at the hands of an incompetent idiot who's too stubborn to admit she's wrong.

Sounds like history repeating itself if this is the case.

TheNuthatch · 04/05/2025 18:32

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:27

No, it isn't I agree. We aren't seeing any benefits yet.

That's because there isn't one!

OP posts:
ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 04/05/2025 18:32

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:06

Sunak's wife?? Come on. They're all crooked.

What did she do that was illegal?

Bluebellwood129 · 04/05/2025 18:39

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:31

Sounds like history repeating itself if this is the case.

Labour inherited the fastest growing economy in the G7 and Reeves successfully destroyed it in a matter of weeks. Quite some accomplishment...but then given the number of lies she told to deliberately hide her unimpressive background, perhaps unsurprising

ChangeisntalwaysfortheBetter · 04/05/2025 18:39

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 04/05/2025 18:32

What did she do that was illegal?

It wasn't illegal, but it was immoral. She had strong ties to the UK, including having a family and being married to RS, PM. She basically used a non-dom status to only be taxed on her UK income, not her overseas earnings, which were substantial. She saved herself 2.1 million in UK taxes during the cost of living crisis. She then decided to back track and change her status, only after she was called out on it.

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