Help me deal with my MIL

[twolittlelovesandaman]

I will start off by saying that I am a long term MN user but name changed cus this is outing. Also, to say that I am very empathetic when dealing with grief due to my job, and accept everyone grieves in different ways.

My FIL died very unsuddenly and unexpectedly in November. He had undiagnosed heart disease, refused to take his prescribed statins, he died of a heart attack which was discovered after a post mortem. My husband went back to UK as soon as his dad had died (the day after on the first flight) to support his mother. He stayed for two weeks and really encouraged her to come back to where we live so we could look after her and help her through the first part of the grieving process. She initially said she would come and then changed her mind, which is fine.
The difficulty we are having is now (almost 6 months later) she is phoning and WAILING (and I mean hysterical) on the phone like he died yesterday. She is saying very hurtful things to my DH (like “don’t you miss your dad!!”) presumably because he isn’t grieving in the way she expects him to. DH says he hasn’t had time process his grief because he’s so busy trying to support her and also carry on working and being a daddy to our young children. She is also being totally unreasonable, asking him to move back to the UK and move in with her etc. She won’t take any advice, we have suggested support groups, counselling, going for walks, getting a job or hobby, things to keep herself busy etc but she’s not interested. She lives nearby her sister, but has fallen out with her because the sister said she needs to try and have a life or she will be miserable.
MIL is supposed to be coming over on Tuesday, for two weeks. She has requested special assistance at the airport (she is not disabled!) which as a person with a disability this has pissed me off but that’s an aside.
She has refused to help us with the kids despite the fact it’s Easter. How do I stop her wailing from driving me insane and make it through the two weeks without committing murder?!
all advice greatly received!

@unefoisauchalet "If anything happened to my DH, my immediate go to would be our sons. You know, because we would be sharing the pain and grief." Would that include accusing your sons of not caring about their father because they aren't grieving the same way you are and putting so much on them they are supporting you instead of being able to process their own emotions as ops dh has expressed?

There are no easy answers.

I was literally screaming at 4 walls for the first few months. (On my own, at home.) I thought that maybe I was going insane. Other widows have told me that they did the same.

I can tell you that when I visited my cousin and her husband, that helped a great deal. I'm hoping that visiting you will do the same for your MIL.

I hadn't realised that you'd offered her a permanent home. I suspect that she can't yet bring herself to leave the memories within her own house.

Staying with you and your family might help a great deal.

I haven’t been, but my husband has and I also paid for FILs sister to go. For those two weeks after the death when my husband was away, I stayed and supported my children (who have lost their grandparent) and I worked, to put food on the table and pay the rent.
I can only give what I actually have, emotionally, physically and financially. I don’t have a magic wand to make it all go away! what else would you like me to do exactly? What she wants, she cannot have! I have offered everything I can think of, but nothing is good enough or the right thing and that’s fine but I can do no more.
Do you suggest my husband goes and lives with his mother? Leaves me and the kids to go and support her?! Our life is here. She chose to move to the most obscure part of the country in 2020 despite my husbands objections and now refuses to drive.

I think you are getting roasted unfairly on here, OP.
I won't go into the whole backstory here but we had a similar situation to yours a few years ago when FIL passed and DH was fielding a lot of distressing calls from MIL for 2+ years after, often very early in the morning. She said some genuinely awful, damaging things to DH. We were also doing as much as we could to support MIL and we invited her to live with us for 2 or 3 months out of the year. She had burned a lot of bridges with friends and family, and won't access any counselling or join any groups, and DH was her only emotional support. Unfortunately DH was grieving deeply himself, struggling to keep up with work and regularly lashing out at me. The situation totally trashed his mental health and created a very tense atmosphere in our home that has got better but has never really lifted. Our marriage has never really recovered. MIL and DH also have a very strained relationship, and our pre-school age DC is very wary of her. (Possibly relevant to add - she is an alcoholic)
It must be horrific to lose a life partner and I don't know how I'd cope in MIL's situation. BUT equally,grief fallout is really, really tricky territory to navigate. As a mum of small children I have a responsibility to maintain a broadly calm and stable atmosphere at home. the way in which MIL has grieved has frankly made that very difficult at times, and that weighs on my mind. If people on here want to flame me for being selfish then please go ahead... Hang on in there OP, this is a really challenging situation

Op one thing I would say is that your mil has been through a trauma and part of working through that trauma is often repeating it verbally, revisiting it in thought, writing about it etc etc over and over until your brain finds a way to store it. That's what she's doing when she's continually repeating the same thing. So it's important to let her do that, it's just about trying to put a boundary on it so it's sustainable. So maybe a planned daily phone call or when she visits a bit of time to walk somewhere quiet and talk or have the kids out for a bit and you and dh take it in turns.

Has your dh sought counselling for himself? I know your mil doesn't want it but maybe he would appreciate that space?

I think @kate240 made some great practical suggestions of having a bag ready to scoot the kids out of the way as needed and plan some low key activities so you can call it by ear. Maybe have a friend on speed dial or plan a playdate so you can have a vent and a bit of space if you need to.

Hopefully the change of scenery and company will do her good.

It is a shame she didn’t come back with my husband when he came before Christmas really, I feel that being on her own is not good for her… she has no distractions or anything and is very isolated and in her own echo chamber. I’m hoping that when she’s here with the kids that will keep her busy so she’s not going over and over it.

Thank you so much for your insight. You are right about the trauma, I had considered that but perhaps should have put more weight into it… she’s always been anxious and v repetitive but when FIL was alive he would dilute her and basically tell her to shut up when she went on and on and on…

DH is starting counselling next week, brought on by the horrid things his mother is saying rather than his grief, he’s quite pragmatic about death and dying.

I always keep a “beach bag” and a “forest bag” in the car so hopefully we can still have some fun times over the holiday, with and without MIL if we need to!

Thank you so much for your post.
we have it figured out that they have two days at club, two days with a friend, two days where husband is with them and the rest with me (thank you lord for shift work!)
I do feel a sense of trepidation but know I must carry on and hope she’s not as bad when she’s here with the kids as a distraction!

It's too soon for her to get control of her emotions clearly. And she needs a lot more time and patience. As difficult as that is for you both.

That said, you are well within your rights to categorically tell her (her your husband tell her) to not discuss her husbands death in front of your children. To get a grip and spare them the exposure to the upset. To paint a smile on for their sake.

If she's ringing and wailing it's not in front of the children is it....?
I mean he died 6 months ago not 6 years ago, of course she's still going to be devastated.
You sound really cold hearted. It will be your turn one day and no one knows how grief will hit them.

Hey op,

I seldom post on mumsnet but I have had a similar experience with a grieving MIL and wanted to say I completely empathise.

My FIL died in the midst of the pandemic from lunch cancer. We are fortunate to be a short drive away and both me and my husband had taken the last 6 weeks before his death off work to care for him at home as per his wishes.

The first year after was the most challenging time in our marriage. We decided for DH to take a 6 month career break to support his DM (who had lost her husband of 55 years) and process his own grief.

MIL was understandably distraught, but the level of projection, emotional manipulation and plain vitriol was off the charts that it ultimately led to my husband having a mental breakdown. In those 6 months, she insisted he go over every single day from sunrise to dusk during which time she would wail (please don't think I am being uncaring here, I totally get it) scream and use him as an enptopnal punchbag and just have my husband running round like a headless chicken doing and sorting whatever she needed. When he wasn't there she'd find excuses to call. On the odd occasion he couldn't make it, she would be on the phone trying to emotionally blackmail him using phrases such as "pleaaaaseeee, pleaasee, come over, i won't cope without you" or "your dad would be so disappointed in you not supporting me"

The idea was the 6 months career break was supposed to support MIL emotionally, but also help her transition to a new normal for her and establish a support community and routines.

My husband inevitably had to return to work but in all of this time, he'd never had the opportunity to process his own grief and the demanding of his time continued.

I had tried on a number of occasions gently suggesting to him this was untenable because I could see he was deteriorating. Things such as trying to reduce the length of his visits slowly so MIL still felt supported but that she gradually got used to spending time by herself. But alas, she resisted everything. Only DH would do and the only thing she was prepared to accept was him sitting in her house with her or taking her out on drives in the car.

That is until around a year later, I walked into our bedroom and the face that looked back at me I no longer recognised. My husband looked bedraggled, completely overwhelmed, exhausted, petrified. He looked locked in a state of fight or flight. Now consider me unkind if you wish, but my number 1 priority is to him, not MIL. He is my family. I told him there it had to stop or I'd end up with no husband as he would die from the stress.

He knew it himself too. So very gradually, he started pulling back. There were a number of rocky patches along the way. She stopped talking to him a few times when he wouldn't give in to her immediate demands, and she's still prone to trying to emotionally blackmail him. For example, she wanted him to do some weeding a couple of weeks ago but we had plans she she said "if your dad was here he would have sorted them by now" but he's so much more adept at deflecting or challenging it gently. Life is much better. They've settled on 2x weekly visits and a call each day (which my DH hates but he accepts as it helps his mum).

You have my sympathy and I hope you manage to get through this intact. I can understand that when somebody loses a partner of over 50 years, it must be an enormous trauma. But, I dont think that gives you the right to subject or make others endure the brunt of your pain to their detriment. My DH was grieving too, shouldn't his journey be just as important?

I hope the visit goes well and your MIL finds it supportive ❤️

Responses like this are just mean. Unfair, not representing what op has said, it's just the usual be a dick to op on AIBU shit.

Is your husband caring for himself, OP? Could he find some grief counselling for himself?

And might it be an idea for him to go to sessions while she is with you?

As in, be seen to go to counselling, talk about what it involves, how effective it is? Role modeling self care, the value of professional support etc to her.

She has a blank spot about her own child's needs - whereas you're putting your grieving husband and potentially frightened children's needs first.

You both have two children, full time jobs, he is grieving and probably not being allowed to while he's been cast as the rock. And you're having to also deal with the effect of her behaviour on him. Not surprising that her visit fills you with dread. You must be knackered already (I used to do shift work too and tho it has its advantages, I felt permanently slightly jetlagged).

He starts next week, brought on by her awful behaviour towards him rather than his grief but I’m hoping he will deal with both.
he said to me last night “why couldn’t she have died first? Dad wouldn’t have behaved like this!”

How is she managing to wail in front of two small children every day if she doesn’t even live near you? Do you have your phone on speaker or something like that.? Whoever is talking to her, stick headphones in and don’t make it a public spectacle.

a) she rings on Skype or FaceTime
b) my husband cannot put headphones in when he has sole charge of two small children.

What a horrible post. I’m shocked by some of the attitudes on here towards OP and so many who don’t read the full thread but feel justified in having a go. OP I totally get what you’re saying and why. Wishing you all the best, it ain’t gonna be easy 💐

Now that I have more information, I'd hazard a guess that on top of grief trauma, the MIL suffers from OCD. (I'm not being flippant - I was diagnosed in my 30s.)

Now that the OP has given us more information about what exactly her MIL has been saying to her DH, I have a better understanding of why she is so upset.

The OP's mentioned in one post that it was the FIL who helped keep the MIL grounded and I recognise some of my own symptoms there. She's been living in her own head for the past few months, and that's really not good for those of us with OCD. (Mine takes the form of obsessive ruminations. It seems to me that MIL is the same. Do not recommend...)

I'm surmising that the OP's DH organised the funeral and then left just afterwards, given that he was with his mother for about a fortnight.

It's a tough one. I totally understand why she wanted to stay in her own home, but then there's the logic fail of demanding that her son come back to her. I've said previously that I think that spending time with her family is the best thing for her.

The OP's children are very young, I think? That being the case, I doubt that their grandfather's death will have had a great deal of impact on them. (Apologies if that's insensitive - I'm basing that on what I've seen of youngsters in my own extended family.) They just need to understand that granny is very sad because she's missing grandad.

As others have said, MIL is suffering from trauma. That may well have been exacerbated by the circumstances surrounding her husband's death.

Trigger Warning

I'll not say too much, but the only non-peaceful death that I've seen was my husband's - from a heart attack. I wince every time I see a public defibrillator, because I was instructed by a call handler to use one for my husband and - of course - we didn't have such a thing.

I've only discussed the detail of it with my GP, and she tried to help by making light of it: "Well, he was never quiet, was he?"

MIL might need to discuss such things...OP and her DH just need to make sure that MIL understands that the children are too young to hear.

No Skype or FaceTime. He can take a call and tell her to call rather than using Skype/Facetime. He can refuse to accept those 2 methods. The dc witnessing this is very inappropriate. If the dc need his attention, he needs to terminate the call.

As a pp said, if she starts wailing, then remove the dc and ask her to stop. It isn’t fair to let them see this or for her to impose her wailing on you. This sounds hard, but if she won’t accept therapy/grief counselling, there isn’t much more you can do.

I think she's actually punishing your DH especially wailing on facetime in front of your DCs.

And I say this as someone who recently lost my dfil, and supporting my dmil.

I know everyone is different, my mil is particularly stoic. But she never once intentionally rang me or DH to wail. I sometimes rang her when she was already upset, or we'd visit and she'd get upset.

But it sounds like your mil is ringing your DH (as opposed to your DH ringing your mil when she happens to be wailing) to wail, to say, "Look how bad I feel, look how you've left me."

So it needs to stop. Not the grieving, but the intentional.public wailing.
Your DH needs to tell her it's too upsetting for everyone and he'll talk to her at a different time.

When she visits, he needs to tell her to not upset the DCs, that no one expects her to stop grieving but she has to manage her emotions with the family.

Make the distinction - you're not saying she needs to stop grieving, but she doesn't have to seek him or the family out to do it. You fully expect her to still get upset and you'll make her a drink of tea and sit with her, but the crying AT people is too much to take.

Be clear with her that your children are off school and you want them to have a good time. So it's chins up for all. Keep her busy

She doesn't want to move on and accept the death and who can blame her, but in place of moving on she's fixated on having her son back home with her (op mentioned in another post).
So she won't try anything else or take any other replies because she has another plan.

Obviously she is stuck in disbelief and shock still, which is heartbreaking.

To help her your DH needs to make it clear that he is not her rescuer. He is not the answer.
He will not be able to take daily calls any longer. He will not be moving back to the UK etc
Yes he is not grieving the same as she is or the same as he was 6 months ago. Yes he has his young family to take of. He's not ashamed of his lack of "dwelling" and he's honouring his df by being a great df to his own DCs.

So sorry to see you getting a hard time on here.

My brother was 15 when our dad died and our mother expected him to be a replacement in almost every way. She made our lives unpleasant for another 50 years so I can sympathise with your concerns.

I hope you and your family can stick together and support each other. It can be really hard on sons, being bereaved themselves and having a mother who is prepared to use them up emotionally.

Good luck

Very frustrating that you've had the usual MN roasting on here

I hear you OP. I had a MIL who was very similar and I recognize the emotional manipulation. She seems to want her son to be her whole world, her wailing wall, the container for all her emotions and her only source of comfort. That is just way too much for any person. She sounds very angry and possibly envious of your family life - that's understandable, but taking it out on him in this way is not on

It won't be easy for him but he needs to set down some boundaries. You've had some great practical advice already about managing the kids if she starts wailing. I feel for you. It's important that DH has your support, but ultimately this will be his issue to manage

Op is moaning about her mil who doesn’t even live in the same country and who has just lost her husband a few months ago. I’d say it’s the people defending her attitude that are horrible.

Perhaps if she hadn’t talked about her mil like she was dirt she might have had more sympathy. Asking for tips on how not to murder her and exaggerating/mocking her phone calls and making out her DH has no choice but to put her on FaceTime for the DCs to listen to has not done her any favours.