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wigsonthegreenandhatsforthelifting · 03/04/2025 17:21

Thisshirtisonfire · 03/04/2025 00:14

Oh yes of course... because she wanted money out of it must mean it's all not true!!
This is the perfect victim thing.
Of course she went after him in particular because of the attention it would bring and the possibility of a big payout. That doesn't remove his guilt.
It doesn't matter what her motivations are ar all. He was on epstein island AFTER he had been accused of sex trafficking kids. He was pictured with his arm around a drunk teenage girl at a party thrown by an accused pedophile.
He's not intellectually challenged. He may have not given a shit how old any one was or who anyone was but that doesn't mean he didn't understand the scenario. He's a grown man an expensively educated one at that. It's so disgusting this turning things around to look at the characters of the accusers. Yes they were all troubled girls there! Yes they took money and gifts in exchange for sex...
But these were teenagers!! You honestly want to focus on that as though it makes it all right?? Oh they chose to be there they wanted money... so it's ok that a bunch of powerful wealthy nonce's got to have a sex island is it? We're just going to let that go because the girls weren't innocent enough??
Absolutely grim levels of misogyny.

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Where was it ever said that she was drunk? Or the photo was taken at a party? Where were all the other guests then?

martinisforeveryone · 03/04/2025 21:47

LBFseBrom · 03/04/2025 01:15

I think she would have backed down but the royals didn't want to risk it in view of the late Queen's platinum jubilee and all sorts of other reasons. As for cost, the ski chalet he sold was estimated at £19m, not that you can believe half of what you read in the press but it was obviously worth a bomb.

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It's reported that he had to stump up £6.6million before it could be sold. That being the cash element he owed from the original purchase that he never paid and the interest accrued. Obviously millions left in the balance, but not so much compared to the rate he gets through ££££££.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 03/04/2025 22:07

Well said @Thisshirtisonfire. Also that video where he was peering round the door of Epstein’s house, presumably to check for photographers, whilst Epstein’ and girls who looked about 14 were being ushered out.

Dustyblue · 03/04/2025 23:13

The woman driving the car wasn't Virginia's carer, she's the caretaker at the hobby farm Virginia owns. Feeds the horses and so on.

LBFseBrom · 03/04/2025 23:14

Dustyblue · 03/04/2025 23:13

The woman driving the car wasn't Virginia's carer, she's the caretaker at the hobby farm Virginia owns. Feeds the horses and so on.

Thanks for clarifying, Dusty. The driver obviously misheard what she said. I did think it was odd.

StrikeDouble · 03/04/2025 23:18

Plave · 03/04/2025 08:47

I think this weird incident has really called Virginia’s credibility into question

If it was that easy to convince people she’s not reliable and credible, Andrew wouldn’t have paid her off.

Dustyblue · 03/04/2025 23:28

The whole incident is strange. The bus driver seems perfectly credible and according to him the accident was so minor it's unlikely that anyone in the car would've been injured at all.

I've no idea on Virginia's general credibility in the past but she's not coming across as a very reliable witness right now.

Plave · 03/04/2025 23:51

StrikeDouble · 03/04/2025 23:18

If it was that easy to convince people she’s not reliable and credible, Andrew wouldn’t have paid her off.

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I’m certainly not saying Andrew’s innocent. Just that people are going to start questioning Virginia and her credibility now unfortunately.

StrikeDouble · 04/04/2025 01:03

Plave · 03/04/2025 23:51

I’m certainly not saying Andrew’s innocent. Just that people are going to start questioning Virginia and her credibility now unfortunately.

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I don’t think decent people will. They’ll still know Andrew is an abuser of underage girls, and probably, like me, think that the abuse and resultant scrutiny of her life, and stress that brought her, may have resulted in her having some problems. I think anyone with a heart will feel very sorry for this woman, whose life has been ruined by Andrew and other men but this shouldn’t affect her credibility in any way.

wigsonthegreenandhatsforthelifting · 04/04/2025 01:33

StrikeDouble · 04/04/2025 01:03

I don’t think decent people will. They’ll still know Andrew is an abuser of underage girls, and probably, like me, think that the abuse and resultant scrutiny of her life, and stress that brought her, may have resulted in her having some problems. I think anyone with a heart will feel very sorry for this woman, whose life has been ruined by Andrew and other men but this shouldn’t affect her credibility in any way.

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But Andrew is not an "abuser of underage girls". She was over the age of consent in the UK.

I don't think Andrew ruined her life at all. I think her own poor decisions, Epstein and Maxwell did that.

You surely cannot deny that her post about being 4 days from death isn't at least bizarre?

She lied about Dershowitz.....

StrikeDouble · 04/04/2025 01:43

wigsonthegreenandhatsforthelifting · 04/04/2025 01:33

But Andrew is not an "abuser of underage girls". She was over the age of consent in the UK.

I don't think Andrew ruined her life at all. I think her own poor decisions, Epstein and Maxwell did that.

You surely cannot deny that her post about being 4 days from death isn't at least bizarre?

She lied about Dershowitz.....

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You’re defending him? Eeurgh. He paid her off which speaks volumes. If he hadn’t done it and his advisors thought she lacked credibility, they wouldn’t have paid her off. She was taken advantage of by a group of sex traffickers and Andrew was pals with them. They’ve all played a part in ruining her life. I’m appalled that people are now trying to blame this woman, who when it all began was a child.

wigsonthegreenandhatsforthelifting · 04/04/2025 02:08

StrikeDouble · 04/04/2025 01:43

You’re defending him? Eeurgh. He paid her off which speaks volumes. If he hadn’t done it and his advisors thought she lacked credibility, they wouldn’t have paid her off. She was taken advantage of by a group of sex traffickers and Andrew was pals with them. They’ve all played a part in ruining her life. I’m appalled that people are now trying to blame this woman, who when it all began was a child.

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I'm not defending him. I'm talking facts!

You clearly just don't understand how settlements work! "Paying her off" did not "speak volumes".

Firethehorse · 04/04/2025 02:30

AquaPeer · 02/04/2025 14:38

I don’t think it’s in the interests of most legal systems to prosecute victims of grooming and modern slavery for grooming others as part of their ordeal.

we didn’t, for example, prosecute the girls in the Rochdale etc grooming gangs who did

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That wasn’t what I meant by more coming out, as I said it was odd more high profile Americans were not prosecuted, they still should, and hopefully will, be.
However, there is a massive difference between a girl caught up in this sordid episode and a calculating, manipulative one ensnaring many more innocent girls and forcing them into Epstein’s circle herself.
I don’t believe there is any merit in prosecuting her and I believe Andrew is a sleazy awful human being but I actually don’t think the photo was real. There is absolutely no way it would have been lost if that were the case. It doesn’t mean he didn’t sleep with her though, who knows the truth on that.
My take is that they are both calculating liars but that’s all it can be just my take.

HoppingPavlova · 04/04/2025 06:35

I think anyone with a heart will feel very sorry for this woman, whose life has been ruined by Andrew and other men but this shouldn’t affect her credibility in any way

I think if you talked to her DH and kids, where she was due in court for breaching an order against they had against her, and seemingly her way of dealing with both the court appearance was to try and get out of it by lying and to emotionally manipulate her DH/kids by using some awful claim that has been proved to be pretty much fake all round beginning to end, they may have a difference of opinion regarding her credibility. They probably also know her a hell of a lot better than you also (I’m guessing).

TENSsion · 04/04/2025 08:40

StrikeDouble · 04/04/2025 01:43

You’re defending him? Eeurgh. He paid her off which speaks volumes. If he hadn’t done it and his advisors thought she lacked credibility, they wouldn’t have paid her off. She was taken advantage of by a group of sex traffickers and Andrew was pals with them. They’ve all played a part in ruining her life. I’m appalled that people are now trying to blame this woman, who when it all began was a child.

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Scrutiny of VG is not defence of PA.

TENSsion · 04/04/2025 09:26

Firethehorse · 04/04/2025 02:30

That wasn’t what I meant by more coming out, as I said it was odd more high profile Americans were not prosecuted, they still should, and hopefully will, be.
However, there is a massive difference between a girl caught up in this sordid episode and a calculating, manipulative one ensnaring many more innocent girls and forcing them into Epstein’s circle herself.
I don’t believe there is any merit in prosecuting her and I believe Andrew is a sleazy awful human being but I actually don’t think the photo was real. There is absolutely no way it would have been lost if that were the case. It doesn’t mean he didn’t sleep with her though, who knows the truth on that.
My take is that they are both calculating liars but that’s all it can be just my take.

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We should prosecute all adults who groom and abuse children.
The difference between the girls who were victims of the Muslim grooming gangs, is that they were children grooming other children.
VG was an adult.
She has then gone on to be abusive to her partners and children.
She deserves scrutiny.

If PA were to come out and state he was a victim of child sexual abuse, we would not think he shouldn’t be questioned. After all, most child molesters, predators and violent adults were once victims themselves.

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 04/04/2025 10:12

Amberlynnswashcloth · 02/04/2025 20:59

From Sky news:

"Ms Giuffre, who lives in Australia, has been charged with breaching a family violence restraining order in Ocean Reef, near Perth, on 2 February, Western Australia (WA) Courts said"

I wonder if this is why she's reported as being "estranged" from her husband and children?

She has lived in Perth for years with her husband and family. I think her husband is Australian. They are now estranged and she is up in court soon for breaching her VRO.

medlobath · 04/04/2025 12:34

Um, nobody else has dared ask so I will. I'd wager more than half of MN were bonking their boyfriends at 17. I'm assumming the difference is she had no way of escaping the island. No phone?That Epstein guy and PA seem shonky as all hell but I actually thought 17yo was over the age of consent . Maybe it's different in America.

ChompandaGrazia · 04/04/2025 12:40

medlobath · 04/04/2025 12:34

Um, nobody else has dared ask so I will. I'd wager more than half of MN were bonking their boyfriends at 17. I'm assumming the difference is she had no way of escaping the island. No phone?That Epstein guy and PA seem shonky as all hell but I actually thought 17yo was over the age of consent . Maybe it's different in America.

But my boyfriend then was another 17 year old from the same school. Adult men with a huge difference in status is a completely different thing.

NautilusLionfish · 04/04/2025 14:51

medlobath · 04/04/2025 12:34

Um, nobody else has dared ask so I will. I'd wager more than half of MN were bonking their boyfriends at 17. I'm assumming the difference is she had no way of escaping the island. No phone?That Epstein guy and PA seem shonky as all hell but I actually thought 17yo was over the age of consent . Maybe it's different in America.

Its different from state to state. They also have restriction by age an restriction by authority. Overall, lowest age of consent is 16 but in some states is 17 or 18. Lowest by age is 13 but then most of those stages even with 13 have lowest by authority of 16. But none of this matters. She was trafficked. Human trafficking involves the recruitment or movement of people for exploitation by the use of threat, force, fraud, or the abuse of vulnerability (uk gov def). So as someone recruited and moved for sexual exploitation there is no consent. Doesn't matter if you are 17, 47 or 97. Its a crime in many many countries including the UK and the US, even in Afghanistan (although the Afgh gov hardly reinforces it, and if they did they would probably condemn the victim to death)

Growsomeballswoman · 04/04/2025 18:49

Is she dead yet?

TheGaaTheSkaAndTheRa · 04/04/2025 18:56

I wondered if she did this as an April Fool style joke but now I know more abut her background, it's looking more like a manipulation technique to get her estranged family to contact her.

Zone2NorthLondon · 04/04/2025 19:04

TheGaaTheSkaAndTheRa · 04/04/2025 18:56

I wondered if she did this as an April Fool style joke but now I know more abut her background, it's looking more like a manipulation technique to get her estranged family to contact her.

I imagine her coping strategies and emotional regulation are impaired. Not necessarily manipulation. She has experienced trauma that became public knowledge that will impact her behaviour & demeanour. There is a massive context to her behaviour and her coping strategies. One cannot ignore she was trafficked as an adolescent

TheGaaTheSkaAndTheRa · 04/04/2025 19:08

Zone2NorthLondon · 04/04/2025 19:04

I imagine her coping strategies and emotional regulation are impaired. Not necessarily manipulation. She has experienced trauma that became public knowledge that will impact her behaviour & demeanour. There is a massive context to her behaviour and her coping strategies. One cannot ignore she was trafficked as an adolescent

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Yes. I agree. Quite possibly. She sounds like she's struggling in any case.

ThinkTink · 04/04/2025 19:32

The main thing I don't understand is why she was in a predator relationship at aged 13 if I remember correctly, prior to JE. I mean where were her family?

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