EBSA support thread 2

[Luddite26]

Hopefully this links to Brambley Hedges EBSA support thread.
A community to discuss the processes and support each other when children are experiencing Emotionally Based School Avoidance.

@Leafywool you don’t have to allow them into the home. They may still try to turn up but you could keep them at the door or if that is still too much for DD ignore their visits &/or push back (either for no welfare calls at all by the school, moving to a phone call/virtual meeting or meeting outside the home - I wouldn’t say school because that may set DD up to fail/add further trauma/add pressure to stay at school). If DD is being seen by any other professionals, you have a stronger argument for pushing them to stop the welfare calls because professionals are having eyes on. Even if DD isn’t being seen by anyone else, you can challenge the school’s instance that they have to visit.

Thank you I really appreciate the advice. So far it’s just been at the door, I’ve never let them inside. I want to put a stop to it but assumed they had a legal obligation to do it, since it’s a safeguarding thing. Dd isn’t being seen by any other professionals at the minute (she’s on a waiting lists for CAMHS, talking therapy through a local charity and also another separate service referred by GP).

Only good thing out of this is that DH also copied in the MNHES Service Director on our complaint, and then sent a follow up email to her with some context and she replied saying they will add this to their evidence and that DD’s hearing is the week after next and gave us a date for when we should have a decision by, plus some other info re timescales. I’m not pinning all my hopes on it but at least things are happening in the background.

Hi @Leafywool how are you and DD doing this week? Is it half term where you are.
Sorry to read your posts.x

Aw thank you for asking. Yes half term here. Only difference really is I’m not having to report her absence every morning 😄

We spent a few days at the in-laws who have three dogs so dd was in her element as she loves animals. Also managed to get her out to the cinema, and she’s gone to meet two of her school friends today who she’s not seen since before Christmas, so I’m really glad they are keeping in touch and that she’s actually leaving the house!

I am waiting with bated breath for the outcome of the panel for her referral at MNHES next week. Hopefully school will inform us by the end of the week.

That's good to hear @Leafywool . I hope DD enjoyed seeing her friends and she feels ok about it tonight. I hope you can enjoy the rest of the break from the hellish reporting absences etc.
I really hope DD gets her place next week and she can feel better and you can. Fingers crossed for it

I am trying to reframe things for myself. Rather than thinking of days they don't go in as a loss, I am trying to think that days they do manage it are a win. But it is really hard.

Good luck at panel @Leafywool .

@ISaySteadyOn yes it's very hard. I wish we could have some sort of goal or plan - frankly it is very hard to write a decent EHCP or take the right decisions without one - but DS just can't and at his age we can't just decide for him. Nothing ever happens because he so rarely has capacity to do anything extra. It's energy sapping.

Honestly, I am in a similar boat. DD2 is just too overwhelmed by school to even try the adjustments she has. She manages every other day atm because each day she goes is utterly exhausting for her.

She must be trying so hard.

I shouldn't moan really, we are really lucky with his sixth form and it's much easier to sustain a part time timetable in post 16.

I attended (virtually) a conference on Supported Internships yesterday. They are an alternative route for getting into work post 16, mainly but not exclusively for YP with an EHCP. There was an academic who spoke about how crucial connectivity & relationships are in underpinning YPs' progress across the board, and how an internship is a really good way of developing those relationships which then seeds into them doing better in other PFA pillars of independent living, community and even health. The thesis I think was how important these "un-measurables" were as parts of the success. It gave me hope that what we are doing in trying to get DS settled into college, prioritising feeling safe over academic learning, is not time wasted but actually invested in the building blocks he needs most. It doesn't make the day to day easy though.

@Piony Supported Internships are an amazing thing. I am a graphic designer and worked in the marketing dept of a FE college and worked closely with the Supported Internships lead on some campaign stuff. The stories we heard were incredible and the things some of the young people achieved were beyond anything their parents could have ever imagined. The only issue they kept coming up against time and time again was finding employers willing to take part in the scheme. It’s such a shame as it’s an invaluable programme. And often the employers who did take part said the Interns were the best workers they have ever had!

That sounds amazing.

This may have been addressed on previous threads but do any of your DC have siblings? I have 3 DC and they have all struggled though DD2's struggles are the current ones. How do you deal with resentment from those that are managing to go to those who aren't?

I feel really on my own except for DH and this thread.

@Leafywool it's such a good idea, but it is not well advertised and I wonder if that is because it's so hard to find the employers. Plus the jobs market is so tough at the moment anyway.

@ISaySteadyOn yes DS has an older sister. So tough on her to keep on keeping on, and so hard to manage the cognitive dissonance, almost, between their diverging paths. It's not just school it's where we can go, what topics can be mentioned at the dinner table, what TV can be watched, what a holiday looks like. It's a heavy load for any developing child. Plus it turned out she was autistic too. Classic case of us experiencing her autism more mildly.

She tells me it was so important for her to have trusted, warm adults outside of the home. Young Carers was a lifeline, especially when she had to leave school and lost her favourite teachers. We do our best dividing & conquering, but parents can't always do it all especially with teens who developmentally are branching out from the family unit. I hope her favourite teachers - or favourite teachers everywhere, really - appreciate what a difference they make to a YP's life.

As well as your local young carers service, have a look at Sibs.

We’ve just had the email to say dd has been accepted for a place at MNHES! I am so pleased, and so is she. I am not putting all my hopes on it being the answer to our problems but it’s something at least. She’s very willing to give it a go so all positive here so far. We just have to wait for a few different meetings to happen between us, school, MNHES etc. so not sure how long that will take before she can actually start.

I feel validated that I 100% made the right call by taking the pressure off attending school when she was so unwell at the start of the year. The difference in her between then and now is incredible. She’s gone from constant meltdowns multiple times a day, crying about being sad all the time, being unable to sleep and me sitting by her bed until 3am, barely leaving her bedroom and being unable to leave the house to no meltdowns at all for the past few weeks, going to sleep on her own without anyone needing to sit with her, going out and meeting up with her friends a few times over the past couple of weeks and wanting to go out and do things with me too.

If we’d have kept trying with school I know she’d still be very unwell and it would have just kicked the can further down the road. I’ve spent so much time over the past couple of months really worried that I’ve done the wrong thing but I’m thankful that I listened to my gut (and also all the advice I read online!).

So very pleased to read your good news @Leafywool . I hope DD gets to start soon. Great news.x

@ISaySteadyOn I recently read a post on Substack by a lady called SENDinMama about this
It was about 3 weeks ago it was very insightful.
I didn't really have any resentment between my own children but they were all doing there own thing really/different times but there are more FOMO carrying ons with the grandchildren each sort of battling to get their piece of the pie or the largest part of the pie.
I'm not sure whether it's come from the US a term called 'glass children'. I don't really agree with that term as really all families have their dynamics and it' feels like pointing the finger at an autistic child for all the problems in the family. But I had two older brothers who behaviour wise were an absolute nightmare back in the day and that was just normal family life.. you can only do your best to be fair to everyone. I just feel it's yet another way to pile on mum guilt. My opinion may be way out of date though!

Can I add I don't mean in any way that a SEN child is being naughty when I said my brother's behaviour was terrible. I meant they got all the attention because of their behaviour but I wouldn't have been labelled a 'glass child' . And it wouldn't have entered any ones head to wonder if I got enough attention! And it wouldn't have entered my head cos you knew everyone was just doing their best at the time

I came across the term "glass child" in the sphere of primary school classes, meaning the quiet well behaved children whom the teacher might not get to know so well without a concerted effort - the ones who don't put their hand up even when they know the answer, don't volunteer information about themselves. It's never implied anything against any of the children to me, just that the adult needs to work hard to get to know them a bit, and make sure they get some of the rewards and opportunities rather than everything always going to the loudest and brightest few.

Each family has its own dynamic. I'm not surprised you grew up with such an empathetic take @Luddite26 but I do worry about my child growing up feeling like a second class citizen, like she is less important or less loved. Too much navel gazing perhaps?! But I still worry.

Thanks @Piony. I can understand it being used in the way you say. I just felt it was being used in this other way as part of the backlash against neuro diversity.
I do remember when my son was in a coma and they were talking about switching his life support off. I needed to go back to the hospital although I couldn't do anything and other family needed things doing, he had been my second born and then the middle child and I just felt he had never had that time on his own - any undivided attention. It really overcame me and I felt I only had that night to make it up.
Funnily enough it was after his accident that DD2 had her EBSA and I thought it was a lot to do with that but it wasn't really maybe that it just was going to happen anyway.

It is family dynamics and mum guilt

@Luddite26 what a horrific thing to go through. I think most of us would find something to agonise about in that situation - your brain serves up your insecurities perfectly crafted to beat yourself up with. If it hadn't been this it might have been working too many hours or not enough, or letting them have driving lessons, or or any manner of other things. We do the best we can with the knowledge and resources we had available at the time.

Yes that's it. Everyone who posts on here is doing their very best by their children and nobody intentionally pays more attention to one more than another. And at different times different needs have to be met. You can only do your best.x

Struggling a bit today, DS was so down and crying last night. Posted my own thread on SEN but no responses, just need to tell people who get it.

On the surface I know that this isn’t an unreasonable point of view but the situation is complicated and I’m at a loss to how to support DS12 whose mental health is really suffering.
DS is AuDHD and has has EBSNA which means he hasn’t been in mainstream education since November 2024. This is hugely upsetting for him as he just wants to be with his friends and to be ‘normal’ but he can’t cope in the environment. After a long road we’re coming to end of an EHCP application and putting together a package for him to be educated outside of school by tutors and mentors. This doesn’t solve the social element though which is a huge worry as DS is feeling isolated.
he has a strong group of friends from primary, many of whom he has known since nursery, and we are close with most of the parents so have been able to facilitate him staying friends with many of them and he’s still invited to birthdays etc. the main contact though is gaming which is a lifeline as generally means he gets to have interaction every day.
there is one boy (I’ll call him LS for little shit) who has been an issue since primary. He seems to have a cycle of being friends, isolating a person, getting other people to isolate them successfully, then withdrawing for a bit, coming back, making friends and everything being ok for a bit before it happens again.
this has been DS a couple of times and it’s currently happening again, eg yesterday three of them were gaming and he got the other boy to drop off and mute DS while they went into a private game together. He’s unfriended DS on the PlayStation and hasn’t responded to messages asking why.
because this is DS’s only way to socially interact this is having a huge impact on him. I’ve told him to ignore him, don’t rise to it, etc etc but it’s absolutely breaking my heart to see him so down. They are Y8 and I know as time goes on it will be harder to maintain these friendships anyway, so having someone behave like this on a regular basis is taking it toll.
LS clearly has home issues - his dad is widely known as an arsehole on his street, his older brother is also a nasty bully, and DS hears the dad shouting and sweating at his sons and wife on calls, so there is clearly a reason why he’s behaving like this.
what can I do? When this previously happened (and got much worse) I did step in and contact the mum who I know a bit (and who seems lovely!) as DS was in crisis at the time, but ultimately it didn’t help because LS got wind and made it even worse for him.
if this was coming through school we’d obvs have other ways of intervening, but I’m struggling to know what is appropriate here.

I'm so sorry to read your post @LittlePickleHead .
First thoughts in my experience if DS was in school I don't think (from experience) that it would get sorted out any better.
There was recently a thread where similar things were happening in a school situation and most posters said at that age leave it for the kids to sort out. This doesn't help you not making things any worse for your son feeling isolated.
He has to just ignore LS and try and keep his friendships going or re-evaluate that some kids are hard work
Do the other kids realise that LS is being a bully the way he tries to isolate DS?
Can DS say to his other friends he is feeling it?
Totally different but my DD AUDHD realised when she got older that friends are overrated and being made to feel like you are worthless by friends and is not friendship any way. doesn't help I know.
Are any of the other boys being horrible are they aware of how DS feels/has been treated?x

Does DS game with other gamers apart from this group of friends?