EBSA support thread 2

[Luddite26]

Hopefully this links to Brambley Hedges EBSA support thread.
A community to discuss the processes and support each other when children are experiencing Emotionally Based School Avoidance.

I hope @EggShells1972 your DD feels up to it on Tuesday and it doesn't spoil the weekend if she starts feeling stressed about it. It is much harder for you when your partner is not being supportive it's not like what he's saying isn't what has gone through everyone's mind but it just doesn't work like that does it pressure just makes it worse.
I really hope after exam s @Piony you can all come up for air a bit. Comedy night sounds a good idea.
I'm not a fan of hot weather and tend to lurk in the shade with a hat on ! GS6 went back to his drama group which has not been running since January yesterday. He was so excited looking forward to going, loved it but when he got home he just dropped with exhaustion went to sleep till 6am after tea.
I have found. Farm which is doing courses for kids with EBSA and EHCPs. As well as forest school and animal care they are offering maths and English and PHSE .
I said to GS we could have a look at what they have to offer. He said I'm sure we can just do all that at home.
But I am going to look at the farm and what they have to offer. We are going to an art exhibition this morning by Ian Kirkpatrick in a stately home so should be good if there aren't any nasty smells. I'm hoping we are in and out before the soup smell from the cafe wafts about!
I hope everyone can find some time for themselves at least over the weekend.🌞

Thank you @Luddite26 I hope so too! DH has agreed to do six sessions with me with a ND family coach with lived experience in PDA/EBSA etc so I’m pleased about that and hope that he starts to understand it from DD’s side of things. The farm sounds great - such a lovely place for children like ours to learn and be themselves. Wish all schools could be like that! The art exhibition sounds lovely and I really hope the kitchen can keep the nasty smells to themselves for your visit!
@Piony hope you get through the exams as unscathed as possible, such an ordeal for you all. Wishing you the best of luck.

Morning all, just wanted to provide what feels like a positive update. Yesterday my daughter (Y10) and I visited a local SEMH provision. I’ll be honest, until she was in the car I didn’t think she’d come. She’s not been in mainstream since Feb 2024, specialist since Nov 2024 and managed one day. Currently on 2 hours of tuition per week and on a good week manages 1.
It was lovely and relaxed, kind and welcoming staff, friendly, all offered at her pace, she was very much at the centre of the discussions and she spoke so confidently articulating what she needs and wants, and what hasn’t worked so far. She was like a different kid. Normally she’d speak through me and look like she’s about to blow when strangers ask her direct questions.
Sounds like an amazing offer- academic in the morning of maybe 8 in a class, then vocational afternoon with a range of options from animal care, art, sports etc. Lots of off site hands on learning.
Trauma attuned, low demand, lots of break out space. They offer a range of models and one includes matching young people with a mentor who works 1:1 either off site or towards coming back into school.
We have to complete the application process but looking at a September start.
In the car on the way home she was chatty, full of life and said “Mum, I think that’s the place for me”.
A far cry from the “I can’t do it, I’m not going, nothing’s changing, I’m back where I was” the day before during some very tense text exchanges.
She didn’t make either of her tutor sessions this week but was very honest that it was either that or the visit, she couldn’t do both. She absolutely made the right decision.
September is a way off but it feels like we might have a plan. The relief and optimism I don’t need to explain.

@Patiencerunningthin wow this is amazing news - sounds like this was just what she was waiting for! Delighted to hear some good news and really hope she continues to feel positive about September.

Morning all, hope everyone is doing well. So DH and I have started seeing the ND family coach who has lived experience of EBSA/PDA/ADHD/ASD. We have taken all pressure off DD to attend school and DH seems to have softened in that respect. Yesterday I sent the family coach a question by email to ask her opinion about my DD’s sleep routine. DD (12) takes forever to get ready for bed, procrastinates, gets distracted, needs constant reminders/support etc etc and I can’t usually get her in bed before around 10/10.30pm. Getting her up in the morning is very difficult so lately I’ve just given up and I let her sleep until around 8.30/9am. The coach thinks we should get her up at 8/8.30am every morning and she should have restricted access to her phone during the day so that it’s like being at school. I’m not sure how I feel about this. Aside from the fact that I can’t get DD to buy into using her phone less/putting timers/restrictions/screen time on, I know she uses it to regulate herself and it’s so hard to get her off it sometimes that I just give up. I’m too tired!
I wish there was a rule book for this!
What does everyone else do with their kids who are at home? Very hard to see an end in sight but DD is at an independent school and we can’t afford to keep paying fees when she’s not going in.

@Luddite26 how were the farm and art exhibition? I am sure you can find something the farm offers that you can't at home. I have found a private AP with a lot of animals where DS could just go for enrichment. He is not in the market for anything new at the moment of course, but I've filed it away in case he might give it a go once he's got over exams.

@Patiencerunningthin that sounds fab. We fell at the hurdle of SEMH school because they expect them to be in FT by the end of the first term and that just didn't feel possible... it's so expensive I do understand that, but it did feel like a missed opportunity.

DS is being utterly amazing. Really struggling as exams get closer but starting to see a way through. It doesn't look anything like DD's prep did but he is conscious and actively choosing things to protect his own MH every day. No.1 goal is to have a good stab at Maths and English.

@Piony - that’s been the hurdle in this provision from November. She managed the look around, an hour assessment on site and the first day.
The messaging yesterday was at your pace as I’d flagged that as a concern. 🤞 we see that in practice.
This time 12 months ago we were in an awful position. If we have survived that, then we can get through the last 12 months of school.
I’ve been massively triggered by other people’s discussions of GCSEs etc recently. Wasn’t prepared for that and it’s wobbled me hugely- gave me a teeny insight into what that might feel like for my daughter.
Huge respect for you all navigating this. It’s exhausting and like another full time job.

@Patiencerunningthin that sounds like a big positive leap forward. I hope the application process runs smoothly and DD can have a fresh start.💐

@EggShells1972 did DD get into school last week? I'm glad DH has opened up with the counselling it will take a bit of pressure off you.
I had a friend in the 00s whose DD struggled with bedtime routines and EBSA. Super brainy so would come to life at night wanting to work then sleep and not go to school through the day. This may sound a bit woo but my friend bought the Bach flower remedies to help her try to regulate. I can't say everything fell into place because of them but friend swore by them and her DD managed to trawl through GCSEs moved to another setting and got through A levels like getting through an assault course then uni where her style of working was fine!
GS15 who is home ed goes to bed between 8.30 and 10. Always asleep by 10 I do often let him watch the tablet if he's watching a series on Netflix or something not just for YouTube. We don't have a TV so he will use the tablet for that. He's up at 7 to 7.30.
I don't restrict phone use in school hours because it just becomes another battlefield. He's not on socials for hours. On the occasion I might say what are you doing on your phone it always ends up being IXL which he's supposed to do on a tablet but he prefers doing on his phone. Maybe DD could have a shower or bath with some sleep/relaxing shower gel like the This Works to start her bedtime routine or a sleepy drink like hot chocolate. It's hard when you are a night owl.
I'm sure the Bach drops have sleepy/relaxing drops too as well as anxiety. They sell them in Boots and probably online.💐

@Piony my thoughts are with you and DS and DD. I hope the exams can come and go smoothly and the weight will be lifted off for a while. It's very sad that we have a system that seems to write children off as failures at 16 years old because of a handful of exams.
I remember pre GCSE my brother who had been a disruptor at school realising he needed o level grades in maths and English to get in the army and he managed to scrape in with grade 1 CSE which was like a second chance to get the grade.
The art exhibition was good thankyou. But I made a massive mistake as Friday is sausage roll day from the local farm shop. I have made a lot of noise lately that it has become too expensive so we would try somewhere else. This proved to be a total distraction for GS. We were round the house, the art exhibition and the gardens and back in the car I. The way to the farm shop within 55minutes. This is a house bigger than Buckingham Palace!
I have to remember that some things are just not a compromise. What seems like something which we can dismiss as not mattering just does matter. GS couldn't concentrate. You think why bother but then remember tick the boxes and it runs smoother!
We haven't heard from the farm but will book to walk with the goats soon and try it out that way. We have a pop up forest school this afternoon. Could go either way. But it is in our very local area which doesn't happen often so trying it. Haven't told GS yet he will have a reason not to go by lunch time.💐

Thank you @Luddite26 I have tried rescue remedy in the past but I’m always so rubbish at being consistent because my memory is awful. There is so much to remember with 3 kids and a ND husband! Thanks for sharing your routine. I really need to get her into a better routine but I just can’t get any buy in and if I wake her up before she’s ready we just start the day dysregulated which is never good.

2nd session with the family coach is tonight. Dd didn’t make it in to school last Tuesday but may try again this afternoon (although bad night’s sleep last night may put paid to that plan, we’ll see).
School have been in touch to say they need to see her for safeguarding purposes and want her to come in to meet the ELSA there. She is very anti that plan so I’m not sure how that will work. The thing I’m struggling with at the moment - aside from having my MIL staying this weekend who so clearly doesn’t get it - is the lack of end in sight. How long do we keep the pressure off for and how long do we keep the door open at school for her to return? I know there is no answer to this but that’s what I’m finding so hard at the moment. Ugh….

@Luddite26 I agree re the compromising - just not worth it sometimes! And yes as long as the expected boxes are ticked things do run more smoothly. Hope the forest school is a success. I have a virtual open evening with an online school tonight - just want to see what it’s all about and see if it might work for us. I really worry about the social / sport side of things though - DD already feels isolated and am sure online school won’t help that much!

Lions Mane @EggShells1972 is a supplement adult DD has been taking for a few months and finding it great for her concentration and motivation. She has bought me some but like you I keep forgetting it. Started off well.
It is hard going to an expert and then telling you to restrict access to phones and change bedroom routine etc knowing it isn't going to work cos it's like ignoring the expert advice. Some people are just night owls and there has been research saying it would be better for teens to start school at lunchtime.
I was only thinking this morning whether you had looked at online schools.
My youngest DD did year 11 in a unit inside Leeds City college. She had been doing online work up to then. And out of the blue this course was offered for kids who weren't fine in school . It worked it wasn't easy there were wobbles weekly. Other kids on the course were similarly fragile which can be good or not but I guess the isolation wasn't there. For that year but that was 11 years ago and she still struggles with anxiety and friendships.
I don't think there is an end to it. Just at some point some relief. Just when kids aren't square pegs in the system. I think you are finding that hard because other people are pressuring you. You are in the middle baring the pressure from both sides. Good luck with tonight's counselling.💐

I remember getting DD to read all sorts of books like The Chimp Paradox and Alastair Campbell's diaries experiencing depression. At the time you grasp at everything you can to try and help.

Hi, hoping that you may be able to give some advice or guidance...

My son is 9, nearly 10, currently in year 5 at primary school. He is on the (long) referral pathway for ASC and ADHD following an intervention (six week worry workshop) for anxiety approximately 14 months ago. I've been on understanding Autism / ADHD / Play Therapy and done plenty of reading in trying to support him.

He's very anxious, but struggles to put into words what his worries are - it's simply 'i don't know' and occasionally a few days later something will slip out and I can try to join the dots. Examples have been someone noisy next to him in assembly etc. School have been great, will give us any support that we ask for, the difficulty is my son won't take any interventions as his biggest anxiety is being different to anyone else or people asking him questions. He struggles with the uniform (for example won't do his trousers up, but won't wear joggers; hates shoes and lives in sliders at home) so all of these things must be impacting.

He's "fine at school" as I believe he masks all day, then comes home and takes a long time to regulate, then the anxiety starts again as we approach bedtime. It's not just school, his anxiety impacts when he goes to his dads (he won't ask him for food, texts me if he's hungry for example) and finds new / social interactions difficult generally so we try to reduce demands and those sort of things.

We've another anxiety intervention coming up working with a company called compass where they'll teach me some cbt approaches (based on cathy cresswell) to try and support him; and i've signed a consent form at school for a referral to the educational psychologist. In all likelihood his ASC/ADHD assessments are still another six months as a minimum before I get any contact at all.

His attendance is patchy, I walked into the school with him on Weds last week as we were late arriving before leaving him after half an hour, and haven't got him back since. I don't think he'd cope in a specialist school as the behaviours / noises would be more; i do believe that on top of the anxiety the sensory issues are a lot for him. He doesn't 'kick off' so to speak, he hides under a coat on the way, shuts down and doesn't talk, pretends to be asleep, I have to physically get him dressed, hides in the car turning the other way / hiding on the days that are too much. He talks about 'following' his friends at school because he isn't comfortable being different.

I don't force on the days that I can see he's struggling, as I read that this isn't the right thing, but this can't continue forever. I am running out of ideas as to how to help him, I second guess myself continually. My heart believes the environment isn't right for him, and I am worried that secondary will be worse, but then it might not be. The ASC group i talk to suggest home education may be better, but that comes with massive complications and changes that would need a lot of consideration.

I've now asked the GP to make a referral to CAHMS for anxiety too, as I believe it's significantly impacting his daily life, but again, this will be years before anyone is able to see him. I'm hoping someone may resonate and have some advice, guidance or suggestions....

Thank you if you managed to read all that, I accept it's a lot.

I'm really sorry to read your post @swimmingdory . Your poor son.
At least school seems accomodating?
Does your son say he doesn't want to go anymore or he just can't but sometimes he can?
If you are considering home ed there are lots of support groups online. But I wouldn't rush into withdrawing your DS right now if he is accessing support at school.
If he was begging you to let him leave it's a different story.
I hate the label high functioning cos it doesn't take into account all the sensory problems which makes a child more anxious. 💐

He literally just says he doesn’t know. Doesn’t say anything just sort of accepts his fate complaining he doesn’t feel well he doesn’t want to etc if he goes in but on the days he really struggles he just sort of turns away from me and shuts down and says nothing just hiding from the need to go. If I try to talk to him about any of it he just says he doesn’t know. He has mentioned homework a couple of times so I don’t know if someone has said something about that this week that’s triggered him

Awwww poor lad. It is so sad.
I'm a home ed advocate so can be bias at times but there are lots of parents on here who would advise you to keep him in school and work through it.
For a start I would try giving him a break from school like an adult would on sick leave. To see how he feels what is he like in the holidays?
My DD has anxiety still and although school was sort of ok for her early years she never liked going and looks back now and feels she would have been less anxious not going. But that is a huge commitment. But anxiety doesn't go away really sometimes you can just manage it better💐

He’s a lot better Tbf. You can literally see a difference in him. If we talk about looking at another school he recognises he’d miss his friends. Good news is the ed psychologist in school has been established so that will take place before the end of the year at least. In the mean time I guess I’ll keep trying on the days he can but not at the expense of breaking him and just take each day as it comes. Today I got him back in on the promise to collect him after lunch as it’s ppa day. Let’s see what tomorrow brings.

At least school are being fair and the ed psychologist is easier to access.

Definitely. Where would you recommend to start looking at home ed without terrifying myself. I joined a HEFA group on Facebook but it just seemed full of people arguing with the LA. How old was your daughter when you made the decision / how old is she now? What does a sort of typical week look like for you.

@swimmingdory there is a lot of that right now so I guess it's hard to avoid but the same group hefa have some good podcasts on Spotify or wherever you listen to Spotify which aren't intense and scary and are worth a listen.
My youngest DD is 27 now. She never really enjoyed school always anxious probably helped being the eldest in her year and I was an active governor and pta pest so sort of kept her going through primary. Problems started in Y7 in Y8 she went to a unit which was then called the hospital school that was 2011. From there she went back to school and lasted one day refused to go back so had to home ed. It was too damaging the school environment. She was older and part of her rehabilitation into mixing with people again was helping in a craft shop and doing crafting classes.
Currently I've got a 15 years old Grandson y10 home ed since Y8. Mainly out because of the toxic environment in his huge academy and we didn't like the attitude he had and path he was being carried down. Also GS6 y1 had one term in reception got terribly bullied he's ASD with PDA he just refused to go and stopped talking.
We do a mixture of an online resource called IXL older GS likes that better than work books but also goes to college @ day a week for home ed kids which is madly oversubscribed.
I do CGP workbooks with GS 6 because I like to be on track with the curriculum just in case he wants to go back. But we read a lot and get out to the park And other places for exercise. I find reading one of the best things as it ticks the learning box and the reading practice.. we used Twinkl and the online tuition hub. It's not really expensive because after school and breakfast club was £195 a month school dinners etc so there's none of that.
And you don't have to subscribe to anything.
But you can look at Twinkl and see whether there resources would suit your son's style of learning because on the days he's missing school you could maybe get into a routine of doing a bit of work at home see how he goes.
People do a period of unschooling usually which sort of gives you chance to get into your routine.
Some people don't do a lot of book work and let the kids lead some do a curriculum called Charlotte Mason. She's worth a Google! Interesting lady.

I look at what Ofsted expects kids to learn in that year group and sort of work from there but you don't have to.

We have breakfast together then a walk round the block do the calendar and work for an hour on a morning. We still do a lot of playing. Afternoons we relax and read. He goes to a drama group which he loves. Yesterday afternoon we went to a pop up Forest school in the woods. We go to national trusts museums and the library. Our LA do home ed lessons at our local museum people come from all over the place!
There are loads of local home ed groups on Facebook worth a look at. We don't have long holidays so do less sitting down learning every day because it is intense.

Like your son next year it will be all SATS which you don't have to go along with. We have just done the year 1 phonics check but I won't be ticking SATS boxes we will be busy with Lego or something.
Our priorities are reading, playing, music and going at ones own pace and not failing.
There are home ed folk doing YouTube
There's one called The Sullivan's who are a massive family and have had to take a couple of kids out of school I think because they were dropping behind. It's been interesting watching that videos worth a dabble. On Substack there are some interesting home educators to read.

There's an ed psychologist called Naomi Fisher who is worth a good read of anyway.

It is all really about going at your child's pace and not pressuring. Rebuilding their confidence.

It's a big step to take. But sometimes it's the only step but you are literally burning bridges.
While school are supportive I would just look at it to see how it would suit you. And prepare to possibly take the plunge if you feel you need to.

There is a lot of home ed stuff going on even the RHS do courses for kids to attend!

@swimmingdory on Spotify we found a great podcast series from 2020 by the people who made horrible histories called Homeschool Histories.
We have listened to it a lot in the car; it may appeal to your ds. Then from listening to that we have looked the people up and gone into more detail and looked at little side projects for example from Charles Dickens we read A Christmas Carol then watched the film! Another episode was Mary Anning which made us look at fossils and we went fossiling. We have a lot of ongoing projects from this series and we listen to it often as what you get out of it is different for each year group.

Well, DS seems quite happy he did as much as he could in his first GCSE exam. He went in and sat it, which was the main thing.

@Patiencerunningthin I hope your daughter is still feeling so hopeful and you're getting school all signed off for Sept.

@EggShells1972 re the tech, it's hard isn't it with teens who have outgrown toys. I think computers are likely to feature in recovery, either as they de-school and start looking for interests or as part of online or home ed learning, so banning them is a bit of a tricky position to hold. And they are a route to social interaction - Mindjam seems very popular, and I'm delighted when DS is off playing Roblox with his friends online. I'd be interested to see whether online school offers routes to that sort of interaction. Because it's not nothing. Perhaps it depends just how broken the child is when they stop going to school, whether they still have friends and outside hobbies etc. We started from a very low point.

I'm meandering. Rather than banning screens we went with a 2 pronged attack of joining them in the tech (downloading the same games & swapping lives & tips, encouraging YouTube watching on main TV rather than on phone screen so we can see too) and slowly building in little bits of other things that you can't do with a phone in your hand. Just creating a vacuum with a ban on tech I think would be counterproductive here, because DS just hasn't been well enough to fill that gap himself. Plus I think it would have driven a bit of a wedge between us when he needed the opposite. Anyway how did it go with the family coach?

@swimmingdory it sounds like you are doing an amazing job at finding ways to help him. You may be able to arrange for the Ed Psych to see him at home if that would be better for him Specialist school/provision may be very different to what you think, as @Patiencerunningthin described. It was a different world stepping into it and meeting people who finally understood that giving him a red card did not make him able to leave the room, and of course if there is a cover lesson he shouldn't even be there.

If your son is on roll and becomes unable to attend, you prob know this but home ed is not your only option. You can also ask for education to be provided for him initially under Section 19(?) and separately apply for EHCP, which would open the doors to specialist provision or EOTAS. It's a long and hard road but these are options for you even without a diagnosis.

@Luddite26 how was forest school? I am just in awe that you are home eding 2nd generation, and 2 such different ages even within that.

Thank you. Both. There is so much there for me to start exploring and I appreciate you hugely! @Luddite26you sound phenomenally reassuring and your family are lucky to have had you in the corner. I’m currently in a wormhole with Eliza fricker and Naomi fisher so it’s pleasing to hear you mention them. I shall explore some more local groups in the hope they’re a little less daunting. Think I just have the overthinking fear atm.

@Pionywell done to your son. My big boys are currently sitting their gcse too. My whole stance on school and gcse has changed completely these last two years, though I keep telling them they need English and maths as they’ll just continue to pester them even when they’re grown ups with jobs! They’re both signed in to college though for next year and all of us are looking forward to a break over summer and hopefully a different approach that gives them more involvement and choice! Does your son have plans for next year?