Lads need dads - the Lost Boys report

[osotroo]

I read this BBC article and it struck a chord. I couldn't see a thread on it here, so thought I'd start one:

BBC News - Lost boys report: Young men are in crisis due to fatherlessness - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd3jlee33yo

I have two boys, who are lucky to have a wonderful dad. I know many mumsnetters have sons who are not so fortunate, whether through bereavement, abandonment, relationship break-down, violence, or personal choice. In many cases, no father figure will be better than the default option. But what can society do to compensate? The obvious answer is more male teachers, more male sports coaches, and other activity leaders that can provide positive role models. What really saddens me is the "all men are bastards" attitude that is so common on these threads, because believing that can only make lives worse, not better.

My friend left an abusive marriage about a year ago. She had two children with him (ages 7 and 9) and she had a daughter from a previous relationship. The ex-husband had been in the step-daughter’s life since she was 5 (she’s now 16) and raised her as his own. He was basically her father figure as her actual biological father hadn’t seen her since birth.

Since they split up he barely sees his two biological sons (maybe two weekends out of four and the odd night in the week) and he has had absolutely nothing to do with his stepdaughter. He doesn’t even ring her. She didn’t even get a text or a card for her 16th birthday. He doesn’t ask to see his sons more and doesn’t call them or text them at all during their time apart.

He gives my friend about £300 a month even though he earns over £85k a year. He is absolutely vile to my friend, really, really nasty.

In the the time between him and my friend splitting up he has managed to get another woman pregnant (his girlfriend at the time), and when he found out about that he broke up with her and said he wants nothing to do with her or the baby. He has said he will help her financially (he’s offered £200 a month) but made it clear he doesn’t want to play any part in the child’s life.

He is a Golden Boy in the eyes of his parents and they can list off a whole host of reasons as to why their son is the victim in all of this and how my friend, and the ex-girlfriend are the Baddies.

It baffles me how men can be so incredibly selfish and uncaring towards their own children. How can my friend’s Ex simply drop the kids he already has as well as want nothing to do with the baby that’s on the way?

Where is that biological urge to care for and love his children? It’s like it’s just not part of his genetic make-up, there’s just no feelings there.

His sons are obviously devastated by the fact their father has basically washed his hands of them, but the step-daughter has taken it so much worse. How can a man just completely discard a child he’s bought up as his own for the last 12 years? I just can’t understand it.

It’s such a mess and at the centre of it all is a nasty vile man who is apparently the victim.

In many cases the judge simply formalises the status quo..the mother is already the primary default parent while the father works full time (the mother may do too, but she'll be the one doing school runs, wraparound care, taking leave in school hols). If a dad has shown no inclination prior to separating that he wants to be more hands on, why would he do it after? If he can show that he's amended his hours, lined up childcare, has a plan figured out then sure, but I've known cases where a man wants 50/50 overnights so no maintenance is payable but still wants the mum to do the wraparound care and drop them off at his, fed and bathed for a 7pm bedtime.

How? How should mums “sort” it?

@NorthernGirl1981 you have to wonder about his parents. If my son acted like that I would be horrified by his behaviour. But you do read so many threads where women are taken in by the sob story many men give when they explain why they see so little of their DC from previous relationships due to psycho ex, they then have DC with them (like the girlfriend in your story) and surprise surprise he acts the same with them

100%!!

Will telling them work? Why didn’t we think of this before?!

But let’s be honest, 99% of mothers do want the children with them, whereas 99% of the fathers don’t.

As much as we want equality between the sexes, at the very foundation of mammalian nature and behaviour, is the fact that mothers generally have a more intrinsic and deeper attachment/connection to their offspring than the fathers do (as this thread very clearly highlights).

It is absolutely unfathomable.

But it is also bewildering to me why the new woman got pregnant so quickly. Why would you do that? And would you go ahead with the pregnancy knowing what an awful man he is?

Well the first thing we can do is a much better job empowering our daughters to make good choices and not put up with poor behaviour from men and instil respect for women from our sons. There are plenty of lovely men out there and some who could be lovely but are raised in a culture of misogyny and often don't even realise they are wrong.

Better / faster mental health support / building resilliance through parenting and schooling would also improve things. I think many women get together with unsuitable men or tolerate abusive behaviour for so long due to low self esteem and poor mental health so latch on to someone who appears to make them feel better at first but ultimately makes them feel even more shit.

Then perhaps the culture and laws around separation / divorce need addressing. That might look like more discussion and thought into sharing assets and separation of assets. Too many divorces involve lengthy bitter dispute over money which sours the coparenting relationships and its always the kids who suffer the most. Maybe better laws about ensuring fathers step up and support their kids once they leave....I read too man ly stories about men avoiding paying and being deliberately unreliable, it's appalling.

I agree. In reality would men being allocated 50/50 in all cases bar those involving abuse go down well? Should they have 50/50 of a breastfed baby/toddler?

More needs to be done to enforce payment of maintenance. Other countries seem to have a better system

The new girlfriend didn't need to breed with him that was her choice

I can’t answer your first question…..although I could guess but I don’t want to be judgemental or comment on a situation I don’t really know anything about.

But in response to your second question, he did nothing but bad-mouth my friend to his current girlfriend, he said my friend was stopping him seeing his children, she was a liar, a manipulator, just after his money, vindictive, spiteful…..you get the idea.

It’s only since the girlfriend saw the real side to this “catch” that she made contact with my friend and apologised for having believed all his lies.

The mums “sort” it by supporting their sons in finding the help the lost boys provide if they think they need this kind of help

Absolutely, but she thought she was pregnant by a good man. She had no idea what the real him was like.

And to be fair, even if she did know what a shit man he was, she would still have kept the baby as it was her last chance to become a mother (her age). We see a lot of threads on here don’t we of women having babies with unsuitable men because they’re in a “now or never” scenario and they don’t want to sacrifice the opportunity to have a child.

Why would they though? They can now have all the benefits of marriage without any of the costs. They get to have sex, somebody cleaning up after them, raising their children and they don't even have to financially provide for this person as they're now expected to earn their own money (despite the physical toll of pregnancy, birth and feeding babies) and contribute equal money to the household. On top of this there is no consequence if they choose to walk away from their children. Paying maintenance seems to be completely optional with no social or legal consequences for not paying or being involved with their children.
Looks to me like men have been the big winners from women's liberation. This isn't to say I want to turn the clock back.

True.

I don’t believe that a child being separated from its mother for 50% of the time is in the child’s best interest, no matter how much of a nicer house the father might have or how many expensive pairs of shoes he might be able to buy for them.

What a child needs is to be with a parent that cares for them, loves them, would sacrifice anything for them, would make the child their priority all the time etc. They need to feel that love and that nurture, that level of stability and comfort. I don’t want to tar all men with the same brush but in the majority of cases, a mother is best placed to meet those emotional needs.

The best interests of the child shouldn’t be dependent on which parent can provide them with the best material lifestyle as the initial post had suggested.

Yup, it’s inflammatory to say it, but the facts are that modern feminism benefits men rather nicely.

So a cop out response really. The founder says they’re already having to turn mothers away because they don’t have the resources to support all the children that need help.

Now imagine if this was properly funded, promoted and supported nationwide so mother actually had somewhere to go. Now THAT would make a difference. However, it takes real interest and investment from men, which is why , despite being a great programme that works, it’s on a small scale and struggling for funding.

I have tried actually - my brother in law is childfree by choice so not really interested in taking much of a role. My dad has been phenomenal in the past but is in poor health and elderly now so can't fill the role DS needs. He has male teachers but that is a totally different relationship. Partly due to lack of a dad and also having a sibling that needs me, I haven't been able to facilitate getting him to or financing some of the activity type of things that might help. He's not outdoorsy so scouts didn't "take" and as a teen, doesn't want his mum at the various sports he might have done. No matter how much some might want to keep making it womens' fault, it is inescapable that the responsibility for absent dads lies with the dad.

I kinda think the entire problem is the fact it's always viewed as mums job to fix... And everyone sees the fixing role as female as a result.

It's never for men to fix.

Maybe, but they are very happy to work in the paid roles, especially the higher management ones where they make up the majority even though the same safeguarding rules apply.

@Deadringer many people on here question why men want to work in caring type roles, working with children and assume it has to be for the wrong reasons

Boys need positive male role models in their lives.

Women, fix it!

How fucking ironic.

Yep.

It's daft isn't it?!