Lads need dads - the Lost Boys report

[osotroo]

I read this BBC article and it struck a chord. I couldn't see a thread on it here, so thought I'd start one:

BBC News - Lost boys report: Young men are in crisis due to fatherlessness - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd3jlee33yo

I have two boys, who are lucky to have a wonderful dad. I know many mumsnetters have sons who are not so fortunate, whether through bereavement, abandonment, relationship break-down, violence, or personal choice. In many cases, no father figure will be better than the default option. But what can society do to compensate? The obvious answer is more male teachers, more male sports coaches, and other activity leaders that can provide positive role models. What really saddens me is the "all men are bastards" attitude that is so common on these threads, because believing that can only make lives worse, not better.

This programme was set up by a woman.

I think part of this is due to safeguarding issues, both the red tape around it and the fear of their motive being questioned.

Any evidence for that last assertion?

I mean verifiable evidence, with sources, not just you saying the same things over and over.

Yes it was, however, they are struggling for funding, they are having to reject kids, the numbers they help are limited and it’s not gaining traction nationwide, despite showing it works. Which proves my point.

Hard agree. Couples can separate and both parents can and should maintain responsibility and contact with the children.

How the failure of fathers to do right by their children is put at the doors of women is beyond me!

I begged my ex not to move away with ow. I would have more than happily done 50/50 but he wasn't interested. As time has gone on he sees them less and makes no effort to contact them regularly. A decade later my DD and DS are v v close to me but DS is crying out for a dad. He doesn't want his mum to take him to his hobbies, show him how to shave, go on a run with him. He has asked his dad if he can live with him now he's an older teen and been told it's not convenient.
If a father and mother separate, there's no reason the dad can't be actively, daily involved if they stay local, attend hobbies, parents evenings, facetime / message, develop shared interests and if course, have them live there half the time if that's what the child also wants. Family court is there to be used if a mother is not "letting someone" see their children but the lack of effort by men to do this is pitiful. You don't need legal rep, just £300 or so for the application. I'm always amazed how many men think they can't possibly find that sum to see their kids.

I'm sorry, you feel that way, when told that it would be nice if men took responsibility for their actions for once rather than women constantly being told they should take responsibility for their actions AND the actions of men who can't be bothered to take responsibility for themselves.

Did you mean to be so misogynistic and use such gendered stereotypes?

(I suspect the answer is yes, yes you did intend to be misogynistic. Well done).

Ridiculous isn't it. Some people will do anything to blame women for men's shortcomings

I blame women for women’s shortcomings aka making plainly awful decisions. I blame the men separately for their own behaviour.

@Meadowfinch
You sound exactly like me. IMO when Mum's are left to bring up the children we have two choices we put ourselves first and spend our time doing our own thing including focusing on the next man OR like us step up and cover all bases , make sure that the children are loved, disciplined, encouraged to be kind ready to be productive members of society.
My kids are now 21,23,32,34. I speak to them most days, I am the first port of call for support and advice, I like them as people, they are caring have good morals and have achieved great things. That didn't happen by chance, I decided to be Mum and Dad rolled into one, and had zero me time. Now I have been blessed with a DGD and spend lots of time and energy on her. I hope she turns out just like her Mum.

While mothers continue to do the lions share of parenting then many men will continue to think their contribution is voluntary or when time allows. Boys grow up seeing this as a daily reality. It is hardly surprising that this is perpetuated when they have their own children.

Is it though? Because men aren’t there or are we just leaving the boys to it and deal with it when they are men? Surely it’s for the boys mums to sort out…. It shouldn’t have to be but looks like it is

There have, actually. There was a huge, 38-year-long study of children of lesbian parents. https://www.sdsu.edu/news/2024/06/groundbreaking-38-year-study-offers-rare-perspective-on-children-of-lesbian-parents#:~:text=The%20results%20indicate%20that%20children,gay%2C%20bisexual%2C%20or%20queer.

This starts before children are on the scene. Men are usually much less involved in “homemaking” even the ones who aren’t otherwise full of red flags. Too many teenage boys and girls grow up seeing their mum do the bulk of running a house and carry that pattern on in their own lives. Is it any surprise that when kids come along too many men slot that into “household” and assume it’s not really their responsibility.

DH does similar. One of the things he does is scout leader. What you don't mention is how much shit he gets for working with kids. There's the obvious scout leader = paedo. That puts off so many men. I can't stress this one enough. And many think it's beneath them - it's an attitude problem amongst higher earners. Strangely enough there are more volunteers (both male and female) in less affluent areas of town because there's fuck all else there. If they don't volunteer there isn't anything else whereas where we are the mentality is that they can just pay someone else to do something. Volunteering is for poor people and rich people are better than volunteering because they have Very Important Jobs And No Time (which is ironic given DHs career)

Then there's the red tape. It takes so much effort and time and takes away from the actual activity. We need people to volunteer just to do those tasks that everyone else can't.

Then it's the time. Men have more free time than women as a role but there is also this expectation that they should be able to use it for their hobby, which women don't. They tend to volunteer when it is their hobby rather than because their children need it. Men see hobbies as a right, women see hobbies as a goal. It's the whole effort v reward thing - it seems to be different for men v women because of how women are conditioned to be support humans but men aren't.

But he's the thing. DH has been able to draw in more men, which a woman couldn't do for social reasons and relationships, so his life is richer for that. And he recently had a former scout say he thought of DH as his other Dad because his own is unsupportive and feckless. He's now volunteering himself.

Women can't make men do this. Men will only volunteer if they see value in it. Women can't change that. It really has to come down to men making this revelation.

I dont know what would posess someone male or female to volunteer, the stories on here are an eye opener about entitled children and parents and all the red tape. INcluding things like school trips. I would never do it.

Well quite!

I think the family courts need to be moderised to support this. Too often old fashioned judges default to the women should be the care provider. If cases were more evenly balanced to who would provide the best home, who has the resources to support the child etc, we would then be able to see more chlldren living with fathers, and the burden not falling on the women if she doesn't want it.